On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:10pm ere be monsters wrote:
Martin got 7 years, Nathan 5. Shocking, hopefully the chief of the fire brigade is next
On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:17pm DFE wrote:
A bonfire boy by any chance ere? they were found guilty of manslaughter. They will not do anything to the fire brigade. i hope this is the end of it
On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:26pm Martin Winter wrote:
Go to prison for 5 years, that will teach you to accidentally burn your business, your house and all your possesions down to the ground! I'm pretty sure lesson is learnt already!?
On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:45pm IvorBiggen wrote:
As soon as Martin gets out he is planning to burn his house down again, they need to rehabilitate him in prison to stop him from doing this. They need to be put Nathan and Martin in two seperate prisons to stop them plotting to pack illegal explosives into illegal containers. We need to keep these criminals off the street, I feel so much safer now that 2 prison spaces have been taken up by these two dangers to society. I have now got a phobia of metal containers and am thinking about prosecuting Martin Winter's dog who clearly knew that the metal container would explode.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:52pm DFE wrote:
bonfire boys unite
On 16 Dec 2009 at 3:57pm DFE wrote:
what i do find disturbing is those vile women who asbused children got the same sentence as the father
On 16 Dec 2009 at 4:03pm IvorBiggen wrote:
Not exactly on the same level is it. Ever heard the saying two wrongs dont make a right, just because 2 people died doesnt mean 2 people must go to prison. It doesnt make logical sense, the punishment is disproportionate to the crime committed. The £30,000 fine which they also have would have been more than sufficient for the 'crime' they committed!
On 16 Dec 2009 at 4:27pm Cliffebimbo wrote:
I AM ABSOLUTLEY DISGUSTED with our legal system. Martin is my uncle, I am writing this in total shock and disbelief that they have been given the same sentence as a child abuser!! How can we have respect for our legal system? Awful.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 4:42pm JeffT wrote:
As a result of the guilty verdicts, the winter's cant claim on insurance for the buildings damaged (business and home), costing them I should imagine in the region of £1million. This I would have thought would be punishment enough for anybody who put the wrong thing in the wrong box but the british legal system doesnt recognise that they have already been sufficiently punished for their error. No need for a lenghty sentence, I hope they get out in a years time
On 16 Dec 2009 at 4:44pm IvorBiggen wrote:
I agree JeffT, talk about kicking a man whilst he's down!
On 16 Dec 2009 at 5:01pm Bunter wrote:
It's pretty obvious from this thread that it's not what crime you commit but who you are that matters.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 5:15pm teaboy wrote:
Pretty shocked at the sentences, especially Nathan (who was not a Director of the company at the time), although I don't know what the minimum term for Manslaughter is.
There should be an inquest into the actions of the fire brigade on the day of the incident. There's fire brigade video on the Argus website showing just how close they were to storage containers and sheds, despite knowing what they were dealing with. Not sensible.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 5:38pm Anon wrote:
A friend of mine's sister was murdered by her husband and he got 5 years for premeditated murder. He was in lewes prison for a total of 2 years because of good behaviour. How can Martin and Nathans tragic accident be given a longer sentence than murder. The legal system totally stinks!!!!!!!
On 16 Dec 2009 at 5:54pm Spanish4 wrote:
This sentence is unbelievable and totally wrong. They would likely of got the same sentence if they had broken into the fireman's houses and killed them with their bear hands.
The video shows clearly how all procedure for dealing with such fires was ignored on the day, the Fire Brigade bosses should be prosecuted for gross negligence. If the correct procedures had been followed then the firemen would be alive and the Winters would be free.
I simply despair at the verdict and sentence.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 6:58pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I'm horrified. I used to work in criminal law and worked on a trial where people only got 8 years after torturing an 18 year old man in the course of a robbery and finally stabbing him to death. The other murder case I worked on ended up in a 5 year sentence for manslaughter, that was a stabbing in a fight.
I hope they appeal. I can't believe these sentences are reasonable.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 7:06pm Johnno wrote:
All gone very quiet since the local news has been on??!!!!
Martin clearly told the fire brigade that there was wood in the container that had illegal fireworks in it.... That is why he was found GUILTY!
On 16 Dec 2009 at 7:27pm sky rocket wrote:
they got what was coming to them, should of been more
On 16 Dec 2009 at 7:40pm Spanish4 wrote:
I didn't see the news, so i can't directly answer your accusation as i don't know what it is based on, however even if that was the case so what?
Martin still doesn't deserve a long custodial sentence - and Nathan even less so. Sending someone (Nathan) to jail for 1/5th of their lifespan for an accident is disproportionate, especially considering the fact that the firefighters would not have died if they had followed their own guidelines. Everyone seems to be focusing on one shed which wasn't licensed for fireworks storage, ignoring the fact that the fireworks that were legally stored were easily dangerous enough to require a full evacuation of the site.
The deaths occurred because of the fire brigades failure to follow procedure. If they had followed their own guidelines then everyone would still be alive. I don't see how there is any more to it than that really.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 7:48pm Anon wrote:
Well said Spanish4.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 8:40pm LewesLou wrote:
Never heard so much rubbish. Poor Winters, absolute rubbish. They were storing 1.1G fireworks which they shouldn't have been (mass detonation hazard) in an unlicensed store. Then they told the firemen that the container contained wood! From watching the news just now it looked as though the fire-fighters were hiding behind the unlicensed container so they obviously had no idea what was in it. They have dragged this town down and my sympathy goes with the fire-fighters, pity they won't be back in 7 years time. The Winters clearly think they are above the law, like they are some kind of local mafia family.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 8:45pm Guy wrote:
So, what more compelling evidence does anyone need to prove that fireworks should be totally banned?
On 16 Dec 2009 at 8:48pm LewesLou wrote:
Guy, banning fireworks is a stupid idea. They are banned in Eire and there are more fireworks used per head of capita there than anywhere else in Europe.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 8:55pm Guy wrote:
If fireworks had been banned then the two firemen would still be alive. Tell their families its a stupid idea. It seems to me that the Eire police need a kick up the a***.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 8:58pm LewesLou wrote:
Ban fireworks and there will be hoardes of illegal sites containing all sorts of illegal fireworks, none of the BS tested.
Lets ban cars while we are at it shall we.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 9:40pm popeye wrote:
Sad day all round. Hope you all have a great christmas.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 9:42pm lewes boy wrote:
pure stupdity. the fire officer in charge on that day need to putting in front of a juge. he should never of sent anyone into that site. they new full well that the site was used for prepperashon of larged firework show.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 9:53pm lewes boy wrote:
leweslou. i think you are liven in the wrong town. fireworks bonfire are wat kee's this town alive. maybe you should move to london or some other sh** hole. if you want to live in a pc world full of red tape and bull cr*p
On 16 Dec 2009 at 9:55pm LewesLou wrote:
I just don't know where to start!
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:05pm lewesboy wrote:
get alife and get out of town
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:06pm Outraged wrote:
Just seen the local BBC news which controdicts itself from the go.
The reporter says that fire fighters were unaware of what was in the container and yet at the start of her piece she says that on arrival fire fighters were met bye Nathan Winter who told them that if the fire reaches that container run.
Also if the firemen thought the container only contained wood, why were they spraying hoses at it, at the time of the explosion.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:08pm PerspectivePeoplePlease wrote:
all that the Winters were guilty of was negligence - and then only as far as storage of fireworks was concerned - how that warrants a Manslaughter charge is beyond me - and I cannot comprehend how the small minded t**ts that seem to have invaded this forum in recent weeks can argue otherwise - just think it through people. The tragic deaths of a firefighter and a photographer were not directly attributable to the actions of the Winters in any way shape or form.
Yes throw the book at them for that - don't let them work with pyro-technics again maybe - but as for imprisonment for manslaughter an absolute travesty - our legal system stinks. IF a manslaughter is condsidered essential/appropriate to close this tragic accident then the charge should be faced by those professionals responsible for the reckless deployment of staff in an extra-ordinairy environment.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:15pm mr happy wrote:
I read in the Argus that Mr Wembridge was told to leave the area and didnt so how Mr Winter can be charged when Mr Wembridge chose to stay is beyond me! I feel sorry for Nathan who was clearly trying to warn the firemen when they arrived only to be patonised for his age! I hope they appeal.
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:29pm Well said wrote:
On 16 Dec 2009 at 10:31pm lewesboy wrote:
id like to know why itv news were running images of the 5th. that got nothing to to do with anything that happened on that day. justed given bonfire a bad name. .........UNTIED WE STAND...........
On 16 Dec 2009 at 11:44pm dyslexic boy wrote:
untied we trip over our shoelaces.
maybe your rude and outrageous view points would be taken more seriously if you learned how the write using the English language lewesboy? If you can't spell then maybe get one of them spell checkers for your browser.
actually don't bother - it makes it easier to ignore your pig headed attitude when your posts are constructed like a 5 year olds.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 8:24am Impartial wrote:
They stored dangerous fireworks illegally which DIRECTLY resulted in the deaths of 2 long serving fire fighters. It is a disgrace that the majority of posters on here (all allied to various bonfire societies no doubt) are not acknowledging this fact. Shame on you all. To me the Winters are as bad as a drunk driver who kills someone while under the influence.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 8:33am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
PPP, negligence that is reckless and results in death can be manslaughter. That is an unusually high sentence for such a case though.
Very sad for everyone involved, except the officers in charge, who seem to have got away scot-free despite breaching all sorts of regulatins and codes of practice.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 8:35am ere be monsters wrote:
Brilliant, critisise someone for their lack of academic prowess, accuse them of being rude and outrageous, and then be rude to them in a grammatical car crash. If you disagree with someone then argue your case, don't just attack them because you feel superior. If you are indeed dyslexic then you should have sympathy for someone who might have the same problems, if you are not then you really shouldn't take the p**s.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 9:41am PPP wrote:
can storing things in the wrong place be considered "reckless"?
On 17 Dec 2009 at 9:45am Humbug wrote:
As I have said before Impartial. Yes, by all means compare it to a drunk driver. If caught, they would have been charged with drunk driving and lost their licence. If however, your boss had deliberately told you to go and stand in the path of a drunk driver with a camera and surprise surprise, you got knocked down and killed, then your boss MUST share the blame for deliberately and knowingly placing you in danger. It is furthermore a bit naive, if not dangerous, to try and turn this into a 'Bonfire' issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Bonfire. The outrage being shown on this forum is due to the unfair way in which the Winters have had to carry the responsibility not only for their own actions, but also for those of the fire brigade, the combination of BOTH being the cause of the accident. Regardless of what was in the container, whether it was fireworks, wood, or anything else, there should have been nobody anywhere near it or any other part of the premises. I hope whoever it was in the fire brigade that made the decision to ignore proper procedures spend their Christmas considering this, and how they have contributed to the kind of Christmas that the families of the firemen and the Winters will have .
On 17 Dec 2009 at 10:02am Tosh wrote:
Humbug, are you a member of a bonfire society or friend of the Winters?Since when was wood explosive?
On 17 Dec 2009 at 10:07am Guy wrote:
It has a lot to do with Bonfire. If it wasn't for that outdated and dangerous "celebration" there would probably have been a lot less fireworks there.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 10:45am BOB wrote:
Guy, Dont be so stupid the explosion was in December so the containers were for other displays nothing to do with Lewes Bonfire night.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 10:46am sashimi wrote:
Cliffebimbo, I am sorry you are understandably upset by what's happened to your uncle. I too don't see what purpose is served by locking up the Winters but I suppose the courts want to deliver a warning to others that these regulations are in place because explosives are so lethal. But, don't think Martin's sentence is the same as Vanessa George's. If his sentence isn't reduced on appeal, he'll be out in 3 years. VG has an indefinite sentence with a minimum of 7 years and she's very likely to be in prison for ever given that she doesn't think she did anything wrong and she won't cooperate by saying which children she abused. What's more if she does come out, she'll be given a new identity and if she is outed she'll be more or less lynched. The two offences are very different and the sentences are too.
On 17 Dec 2009 at 10:52am ere be monsters wrote:
None of the fireworks stored illegally wer destined for Lewes on the 5th.