Lewes Forum thread

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Second Class England

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On 4 Feb 2015 at 8:00pm SOT wrote:
Scottish Labour has ceased to be. If today’s polls were tomorrow’s election result, the SNP would have 55 out of 59 seats in Scotland.
In England Labour's core vote strategy has reached out to disaffected Liberals the public sector unions, and those anxious about the future of services they rely on. In the frightening wake of Browns misrule this has worked, and the reds are neck and neck with the blues.
It is now certain that the next election will provide a coalition government formed of some 45-50 SNP MPs and the Labour rump. The SNP have dropped their promise not to vote on English issues and Labour show no signs of concern that such a government would lack any legitimacy.They only avoid and delay in the time honoured fashion…” The real question is bigger than the one you want me to answer …it needs a fuller and much much longer discussion”. Yada Yada.
Even now Labour are desperately offering the Scots “Vow plus “ .This means even more goodies paid for by English taxes, better pensions, grants, welfare and yet more power. Were Scottish MPs at Westminster barred from symmetrical competencies ,they would have nothing to do but moan about Trident !
It is odd that Lewes, a town woven into the tapestry of English history should care so little about the way the English are being treated.
Perhaps we deserve to be second class citizens.
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On 4 Feb 2015 at 8:14pm Weaver wrote:
Stuff them all Vote UKIP
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On 4 Feb 2015 at 9:56pm Sussex Dim wrote:
So what? Ive always voted to be a 2nd class citizen, always will. We certainly don't want any namby pamby lefties trying to promote 'social mobility', we had that and all got sick and tired of it.
We want right wing governments to beat us back into pre-war conditions. Conservatives have been brilliant at that lately, despite having to work with Trotskyite liberals trying to screw us all over.
The continued failure of Tory economic policy is a red herring too, it's not failing the rich - and that's what's important.
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On 4 Feb 2015 at 9:56pm Sussex Dim wrote:
So what? Ive always voted to be a 2nd class citizen, always will. We certainly don't want any namby pamby lefties trying to promote 'social mobility', we had that and all got sick and tired of it.
We want right wing governments to beat us back into pre-war conditions. Conservatives have been brilliant at that lately, despite having to work with Trotskyite liberals trying to screw us all over.
The continued failure of Tory economic policy is a red herring too, it's not failing the rich - and that's what's important.
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On 4 Feb 2015 at 10:13pm Clifford wrote:
No Sussex Dim, SOT thought he was a 'first class citizen' because there were a few submarines carrying Trident nuclear missiles moored in Scotland. Everybody knows that having an unelected head of state, a nuclear weapon and a long forelock is what makes you a 'first class citizen'.
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On 4 Feb 2015 at 10:28pm Sword of Tosh wrote:
The Scots will force us all to eat haggis and neeps whilst listening to porridge covered pipers dancing on the faces of English babies!Meanwhile their bloodthirsty Labour cronies will be burning businessmen in Trafalgar Square .Mrs Thatcher gives me the horn.Vote Tory it`s your only chance.
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 6:48am SOT wrote:
As I was saying , if a country no longer cares about itself then why keep it at all and if the people who comment on this forum are to be left with child sized voting rights who can really complain.
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 6:55am SOT wrote:
any namby pamby lefties trying to promote 'social mobility',
I struggle to recall a time when the left have ever promoted social mobility .The great inner city housing citadels of Labour with its vast welfare apparatus are the engines of social segregation as are its mediocre schools and general loathing of success.
In terms of equality it has improved under the coalition and got worse under New Labour peaking in 2010
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 10:49am Joe Kerr wrote:
SOT - Can you name any measure of equality that has improved under the CondDem coalition ?
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 11:41am SOT wrote:
That is according to the IFS which was quoted on QT9 R 4 by David Dimbleby so it is about as solid as you can get .Polly Toynbee wrote an article( well parroted Labour work ) questioning the implications of this work but while she can be ignored basically equality has improved because of the leveling down of low wage growth so its nothing to be proud of .
It is a fair point that under New Labour despite ever growing state spending inequality grew IMHO
I also object to the New-Speak way mobility has been appropriated by the left when they have always prevented mobility by massively progressive taxes within the ordinary range of incomes. That is exactly what the crap about the super rich is designed to avert the eyes from. There is only one place to get revenue, ordinary people.
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 7:26pm Sussex Dim wrote:
And I massively resent having the things taxes used to pay for - health care, schooling, university fees, state pensions, council houses - all those things ever did was drag me from the poverty I wanted and gave us a leg up into a world of better jobs and better life chances, what was previously (and quite rightly) the exclusive preserve of the rich. The golden age of post war social mobility was a terrible terrible mistake, we need to carry on with the progressive taxation policies of recent decades - reducing top rate income taxes, abandoning a moral obligation of taxation at all for the super rich and large corporations, and spending what taxes we can rip from us lower classes on those rich people who don't have to contribute.
That's our dream, eh Paul.
Hang on, did left wing governments really tax ordinary people more than the rich? Then they must be right wing and I should vote for them. or something. Wait... no, I... ermm...
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On 5 Feb 2015 at 9:02pm Sussex Vim wrote:
I've scoured the policies of the politicians, and conclude : Vote UKIP
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On 6 Feb 2015 at 8:50am Belladonna wrote:
Right, that's me convinced. I'm voting SNP
 
 
On 6 Feb 2015 at 5:01pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Even if a casual observer did agree with your predictions for the election Paul, are you not concerned that even the Tory government are now bending over backwards to accomodate the lubed up shaft of the SNP by proposing a ridiculous veto system that does exactly nothing to stop Scottish MPs dictating Westminster policy rather than a proper English votes for English policies measure? They've not even explained why Billy Hague came up with such a weak proposal, it's not like the Tories have a hope of winning any seats in Scotland anyway so why bother introducing appeasing policies? Surely they aren't paving the way for a possible coalition with the SNP? Even Dave can't be that desperate to stay in power can he?
 
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On 6 Feb 2015 at 10:46pm SOT wrote:
It falls far far short of fairness to the English but the crucial point (that Brown saw immediately ) is that it makes it impossible to pass a budget without an English majority. That means it is impossible to form a government without an English majority.
From that much else follows with the appearance of continuity and there was nothing that could possibly have been done that would not help Salmon.
I don`t understand in what sense making Scots MPs less powerful is appeasing Salmon, it may provide further grounds for victim hood but so does the sun coming up. It would have delighted him to have an opportunity of inflicting hated policies on the English. It is of course Labour who have endlessy stoked and Scottish Nationalism.
Nonetheless it does not answer the WLT due to the glaring asymmetry you point out and much more actually , the deal wrung by the Scots out of this will not be out of the papers for one day of little Ted`s miserable and short s inter-regnum.
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On 6 Feb 2015 at 11:34pm Sword of Snot wrote:
Salmon? Sturgeon? Millipond ? Oh my Cod! Thatcher gives me wood.Vote Tory .
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On 7 Feb 2015 at 4:30am simpleton of truth wrote:
In other words, if we start pretending New Labour aren't right of center, we can blame everything they did (without any hint of criticism from the tories at the time ) on the left


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