On 8 Apr 2013 at 12:56pm SpeedoNot wrote:
Margaret Thatcher died today - not popular with some people but she was totally necessary at the time.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 1:30pm Taff wrote:
No sad day for me.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 1:46pm my town wrote:
I bet all the miners are up set about her !
On 8 Apr 2013 at 1:52pm Taff wrote:
Most miners were pleased that a s**t awful job had been taken from them. It was the Gov't of the day's lack of strategy and arranging other work to replace mining was the problem.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 2:04pm nevil rook wrote:
Hopefully we will never see the likes of her again.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 2:24pm Ratio wrote:
Correction. I take back the unspecific gender. It's obviously a bloke.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 2:45pm jrsussex wrote:
Margaret Thatcher was the ‚??man of the day‚?Ě giving strong political leadership that was so badly needed in the latter part of the 20th century. I think it possible that those born after the mid-sixties probably do not have a clear idea of just how badly the UK required that strong leadership at that time. From the post war years right through to the later 70‚??s and into the 80‚??s the trade unions of the day, in the main controlled by far left sympathisers and communist party followers, played a large part, under both Labour and Conservative administrations, in ruining the manufacturing industries of this country. I had an inside view of that period in trade union history as I was very left wing, became a shop steward and subsequently a convener as a member of the TGWU. I worked within a closed shop environment where even the senior executives had to belong to a union.
What do we think now of her battles to ensure that this country, and Europe, was not ruled by a Franco/German alliance? I believe that the late 20th and the 21st century have proved her right. Her flat refusal to allow them to do what they wanted made me the euro-sceptic that I am.
Her strength in standing up to Argentina and ensuring this country once again stood up for freedom and democracy speaks volumes of her.
She along with Reagan and Gorbachov brought about the end of cold war, something for which all three should be forever remembered. She visited many countries being well received by them all, places such as Russia and China. On TV just a few minutes ago Gorbachov spoke of what a great woman she was, as did Kissinger and other international statesmen and women.
Did she get everything right throughout her political career? Of course not but tell me a politician that did. Thatcher will be recorded in the history of world leaders as one of the greats. And as for hoping her like is never seen again I pray that in times when leadership such as hers is needed some one with her determination is there.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 2:54pm SpeedoNot wrote:
Spot on JR
On 8 Apr 2013 at 3:03pm Blip wrote:
Well said, JR!
On 8 Apr 2013 at 3:33pm Nixon Scraypes wrote:
Mrs Thatcher did what she was told to do.She oversaw the de-industrializing of Britain and the de-regulation of the banks, all the while acting like a real patriot and waving the flag.She,along with Gorbachov and Kissinger are/were globalists working towards a world government and an end to national sovereignty.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 3:36pm Grumpy trader wrote:
And let's not forget she is/was . A wife , mother , human being , her choice of role in society made her popular and unpopular , lets face it us mortals only ever get half of the truth from any P.M . Whatever the party,
On 8 Apr 2013 at 4:32pm red ken wrote:
I hope the dance floor is big enough at her funeral.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 5:14pm Ted Crilley wrote:
JR, I'm delighted she's gone. She represented a class of people who've privatised and looted this country and moved the wealth into their own off-shore troughs. I feel the need to take you up on some of the myths that keep getting trotted out.
"I had an inside view of that period in trade union history as I was very left wing, became a shop steward and subsequently a convener as a member of the TGWU. I worked within a closed shop environment where even the senior executives had to belong to a union."
Wrong, Unions really have had very little to do with the decimation of industry in this country. Globalization has. Who was a lead exponent of it. Thatcher.
"Her strength in standing up to Argentina and ensuring this country once again stood up for freedom and democracy speaks volumes of her." Not exactly true this one is it JR. Thatcher knew the invasion was coming and before it was willing to negotiate on the islands sovereignty.
She along with Reagan and Gorbachov brought about the end of cold war, something for which all three should be forever remembered.
What? How exactly? Wrong as well as being complete nonsense.
I'm glad to see you mention Kissenger, he's just the kind of person she should be associated with. He was a soulless vile human being.When a true humanitarian like Nelson Mandella passes away, maybe we can remember some of the appalling things Thatcher said about him and let's put her lack of humanity into perspective.
Goodbye Margaret, I would like to think I wouldn't see your likes again but unfortunately you set the mold and the world is a poorer place for it.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 5:41pm Sue wrote:
Tramp the dirt down - we have waited far to long.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 5:44pm Myself wrote:
I'm starting a virtual conga round town. whos joining?
On 8 Apr 2013 at 5:57pm king cnut wrote:
She got some things right and some things terribly wrong. In my own view selling off the nationalised industries is something we can never get back. I'm reminded everytime I pay my heating and water bills that the profits are being invested abroad.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 6:15pm jrsussex wrote:
Ted Crilley - I have no idea where you have lived over the past 30/40yrs, not in this world, possibly not even on this planet. Unions had nothing to do with the downfall of our manufacturing industry? Ending the cold war had nothing to do with those I have named? She didn't stand up over the Falklands? You clearly know nothing of the matters you are attempting to debate, back into your cave I suggest. Leave the debate to adults.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 6:27pm Townie wrote:
JRSussex......take a bow. Well said sir
On 8 Apr 2013 at 6:42pm dizzydi wrote:
Without her how many of us would of been in a position to buy our council houses?
On 8 Apr 2013 at 7:08pm Justakid wrote:
it is completely vacuous & unacceptable to celebrate her death. You may not agree with her monetarist approach to economics, but she did reduce inflation from 17% in 1979 to 5% in 1983. Trade unions are a barrier to free trade and enterprise, something that Thatcher advocated. The miners worst enemies were there miners. Has everyone forgotten the winter of discontent? how trade unions could essentially hold the country to ransom? Love or hate her, Thatcher is an inspiration to all
On 8 Apr 2013 at 7:08pm drone wrote:
Without her, how many would now be on the waiting list for council houses?
On 8 Apr 2013 at 7:16pm padster wrote:
she took my free milk away from the GLC, when red ken was in charge of the GLC
hated her politics she cared little for wales or scotland they were labour.
destroyed towns created gettos
RIP i am sure she suffered in later life and i dont celebrate pain but and good riddence.
I dont think the one;s show use of Tom Jones "shes a lady" either clever in-joke or poor taste as he came from Trefforest, or Pontypridd you foreigners( the english)
On 8 Apr 2013 at 7:33pm Woody wrote:
JR - Your Falklands argument. The Islands had been patrolled by a single British ship for years without incident. As soon as the Argentinians sensed British weakness (by Thatcher withdrawing HMS Endurance) they made their move. Thatcher wanted to decommission Endurance to save a few quid. This was inspite of advice and warnings not to from the Endurance Captain, someone who was actually there, thousands of miles away. The decision of course cost millions of pounds and hundreds of lives. Some would say for political gain.
On 8 Apr 2013 at 7:50pm Ted Crilley wrote:
JR. Sticks and stones! If I'm a troglodyte and a child I didn't resort to juvenile name calling. If this is what you consider to be debating like an adult I really don't know why I'm bothering.
So here's the points again.
Unions, you celebrate her work on the Unions. If she did such a tremendous job why don't we make a damn thing here any more? Really, how successful was her economic policy with regard to British industry? Where have all the factories gone?
You never answered the question about how she exactly ended the Cold War If you can read my post again you will notice I didn't refer to Reagan & Gorbachov, I specifically asked you about Thatchers role.
You didn't respond to the fact that pre-invasion, she was willing to negotiate with Argentina.
So there you go, care to debate like an adult?
On 8 Apr 2013 at 8:21pm Sussex Jim wrote:
An inevitable but still sad day for our country. I stopped work as soon as I heard the news, out of respect.
Thirty five years ago we had inflation at 26% and the country was being run by the unions with their demands for even more unsustainable subsidising of uncompetitive industries. We were about to have nationalisation of the banks and building societies, had Labour been re-elected.
Fortunately, the Iron Lady saved us. We really need someone like her again in power, to halt the slide that we are in now.
I am glad to see that most posters have put sensible comments on this thread. Although one regular is surprisingly quiet...
On 8 Apr 2013 at 8:57pm Red Ken wrote:
The Falklands War was a Godsend for Thatcher. It didn't matter how many died because it got her re-elected. Far more important to her. And then there was her direct involvement in the Belgrano...........
On 8 Apr 2013 at 9:00pm Kettle wrote:
Think of the problems we have now, the financial mess caused by deregulation of the financial industry, the housing bubble, the lack of council housing, sky high transport costs since privatisation, towns, like the ones my husband came from, permanently broken since the mines were shut in a petty act of vindictiveness, I could probably go on and on.
She was a vile woman, and quite bonkers. Most people only seemed to notice how crazy she was at the end. Glad she's gone.
On 9 Apr 2013 at 1:56am Justakid wrote:
Ted Crilley, you are aware that we transformed to a service economy, opposed to a manufacturing one. We consist of more skilled-workers, something that is commonly associated with a wealthier nation. As stated before her monetarist policy worked, inflation was reduced by over 10% in 4 years.
Kettle, the mines were not shut through vindictiveness, but simple economics. Miners demanded higher wages, it became cheaper to import.
Red Ken, the Belgrano, although sailing in an opposite direction, was still a threat to the navy. Do you think Thatcher enjoyed having the blood of those men on her hands? It simply had to be done.
Thatcher was a keen advocate of free trade and enterprise. Privatising these industries meant that the consumer benefits, especially where there is competition. It is also academically acknowledged that privatisation shrinks the power of the state and enlarges the power of the people
On 9 Apr 2013 at 2:54am Expat Two wrote:
Its also 'academically acknowledged' that pay hasn't increased for middle and working classes since 1979. She's ensured your pay stays where it is whilst the top 1% have seen a 17 fold increase. Tell us again how much better off we all are thanks to her. Presumably you think the Australian economy is a lie? How can it possibly be they haven't been part of the global meltdown when they have had such powerful unions for so long? Can't possibly be anything to do with good pay and conditions?
The sinking of the Belgrano was a universally acknowledgedm act of cowardice, and rightly so. You're a coward too if you think that attacking those in retreat is OK, despite your weasely excuses.
I'm glad she's dead too, good riddance to the lying murderous cow, its a shame she didn't die of hypothermia years ago, like the pensioners did when she decided they should pay VAT on winter fuel so she could reduce top bracket taxes. Or in a pool of her own faeces like those in Stafford Hospital had to endure thanks to her wish for aggressive private enterprise in state affairs.
Drinks are on me tonight. An end to UK's most shameful episode in political history. No doubt the nation will be wrapped up with a state outpouring of grief that would embarrass the ghosts of both Stalin & Mao.
On 9 Apr 2013 at 2:56am Expat Two wrote:
Just another post so I can change the thread title
On 9 Apr 2013 at 5:27am ms_kitka wrote:
I agree with Ted! Thatcher was a really nasty piece of work and
ripped the heart out of this country. She trashed all that was good about British politics - a collective conciousness, caring, a sense of fairness. She even said, "There's no such thing as society" What an appalling thing to say! She duped a lot of people into believing in the power of the individual (as if!)whilst her rich cronies got richer and richer ...not too unlike the insipid toe rags that are currently in power.
On 9 Apr 2013 at 8:34am Pete wrote:
It's interesting reading the content of this forum - it just goes to show how much she has split our communities.......
I lived in Wales during the miners' strike and saw at first hand the poverty and hardship that was caused (by Thatcher AND Scargill). I hope they both rot in hell.
As for leadership - she wouldn't measure up to Winston Churchill's bootstrap (and he wasn't a very good peace time leader either), and why she's been afforded a funeral at the level of the Queen Mother god only knows. Good riddance , now can we concentrate on getting our society back together please......
On 9 Apr 2013 at 9:48am jrsussex wrote:
Clearly divided views/opinions on Thatcher. I did say in my original post ‚??Did she get everything right throughout her political career? Of course not, but tell me a policitician that did‚?Ě. I hoped that would have demonstrated my balanced view.
Unions ‚?? If any poster does not accept that one of the major factors which resulted in the UK turning from a manufacturing country, on which we had built great status and wealth, to a service based country then they do not know much of our social history during the post-war years. No British Government of any party had had the courage and strength to stand up to the unions, which had to be done. Apart from the mining industry look at what they did to the British car and steel industry, unions were not the sole factor but they certainly played a major role. The actions of the unions throughout the 60‚??s, 70‚??s and into the 80‚??s are the reason I abandoned my left wing views.
The Falklands War ‚?? Argentina did indeed sense a weakness in British attitude towards the Falklands with the withdrawal of the one naval patrol ship in the area, but boy did they come to realise that their ‚??sense‚?Ě could not have been more wrong. The ship was cleary not withdrawn for any reason of abandoning the Falklands as the subsequent action by Thatcher proved.
The Belgrano ‚?? Those posters who think sinking it was a cowardly act almost certainly have no knowledge of military matters. The ship wherever it was and whatever heading it was on remained a threat to British forces. A further display of military ignorance is that some of you think that as she appeared to be retreating she should not have been attacked. Retreating does not give you a ‚??free ticket to get out of jail‚?Ě, retreating forces are pursued and captured, wounded or killed, which is the nature of war. Do you honestly believe that the attacking force allows the enemy to retreat in order that they may reform and come to attack you again? It has happened but rarely.
Housing ‚?? The fault with her housing policy was that no council housing (as social housing was then called) was built following her policy of ‚??buy your own home‚?Ě. But how many working class people did get their foot on the home ownership ladder as a direct result of that policy.
The Cold War ‚?? There is little point in debating the matter with anyone who refuses to acknowledge that Thatcher, Reagan and Gorbachov worked together to bring an end to the cold war, a magnificent achievement which many younger people may not appreciate. It removed the constant fear of nuclear war albeit now reintroduced by idiot nations.
My last word on the matter, I recognise her as a great leader, which was what Great Britian required in 1979, 11yrs later she it was right that she should go. Another balanced view I hope.
On 9 Apr 2013 at 1:06pm Woody wrote:
JR - The Falklands. If the Endurance had been allowed to continue patrolling the Islands, the likihood is the whole war would have been avoided. This attitude summed Thatcher up. She never listened to anyone else, she made rash decisions and always with the short term in mind.She bullied those around her. No ability to think ahead or see a bigger picture. That's not 'great leadership' or statesmanlike behaviour. It's crass and vulgar like the woman herself.
On 9 Apr 2013 at 1:22pm Nevil Rook wrote:
Thatcher made me reduntant as the milk monitor in our school as a boy,never forgiven her. I had the "pleasure" of meeting her 3 times as my MP when i was a young man on each occasion she came across as a heartless coniving Tory ,has any women ever been hated more ?
On 9 Apr 2013 at 2:29pm Nixon Scraypes wrote:
The myth lives on.While the TV and papers pour out the propaganda non stop framing the debate.The left and the right are just arms of the pincers that have a grip on us.We argue and fight with each other and never see who'se manipulating everything.Meanwhile the national debt gets bigger every day.One thing Mrs Thatcher did say that I think was probably true was,when asked if she missed being in power,she replied that as a part of the" parallel government"she could be more effective,not having to bother about voter's opinions. I wonder what she meant?
On 9 Apr 2013 at 3:24pm Red Ken wrote:
The Belgrano was 36 miles outside the British proclaimed exclusion zone and heading away. A threat? Dont make me laugh. It was a pre war light cruiser pensioned off by the US after the war and had very basic armaments. It was about as much threat as a water pistol. It was an easy target and prize that she thought would have everyone back home celebrating.
The Argentinian government had a peace proposal on the table at the time which was conveniently ignored too...............