On 7 Mar 2011 at 7:49pm Pope wrote:
In the light of red nose day I am becoming more and more frustrated by films or pictures of chidren dying of malnutrician or disease. Why oh why do their have children knowing that they cannot afford to feed them. As well as aid in the form of money, surely the education of birth control should be a priority. And if they are being educated in birth control it doesnt appear to be working.
On 7 Mar 2011 at 10:25pm Bazooka Joe wrote:
PMSL, 1st time in my life that I agree with the Pope!!!
On 8 Mar 2011 at 10:03am Hoist wrote:
This is a joke, right?
On 8 Mar 2011 at 10:27am 'ere be monsters wrote:
Hoist. What's wrong with birth control?
On 8 Mar 2011 at 11:20am Hoist wrote:
Quite apart from the judgemental tone of the comment from someone who obviously has absolutely no idea of the problems and motivations of the very poor in third world countries, I was really struck by the [unintended?] humour of someone using the name 'Pope' talking about the lack of birth control in such places.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 11:31am 'ere be monsters wrote:
What are the problems and motivations of the very poor in third world countries then Hoist? Enlighten us.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 11:33am Hoist wrote:
No, no, no - It is you guys who think you have all the answers.
Do enlighten me ...
On 8 Mar 2011 at 11:44am 'ere be monsters wrote:
What have I said? You said Pope had no idea of the problems and motivations of the very poor in third world countries. I only asked what they are. I didn't even ask for the answers to those problems. Presumably you can explain?
On 8 Mar 2011 at 11:53am Hoist wrote:
Ok - if you are really too lazy to do any of your own research. However if you enjoy wallowing in your own ignorance so much then maybe you won't be able to struggle through this article - and many good points are made on page 2 so it may be a bit hard for you. I found this by surfing for 2 seconds and it has a very decent summary of a lot of the problems.
So much easier to be a judgemental moron thought, isn't it?
If you need any more information then do your own research. You might also want to look up eugenics.
I'm out of this very distasteful thread.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 12:56pm Mr Forks wrote:
Oh la de da! Don't you just love Guardian readers??!!
On 8 Mar 2011 at 1:11pm Taff wrote:
Strikes me we, the UK that is, is very fast becoming third world!
On 8 Mar 2011 at 1:13pm Deelite wrote:
Some sort of control on the numbers of humans on this planet is way overdue, but as our government has no rights to control the populations in other countries why don't we start in our own country? Perhaps we could use financial criteria as the Pope does above and only allow children to be born whose parents will not require any benefits from the state to raise them.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 1:32pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
What a shame you have to use such childish insults when you try to make a point Hoist. When you suggested pope didn't understand the "problems and motivations of the very poor in third world countries" I assumed you did. I didn't realise you weren't able to provide your own reasons for condemning pope.
I don't think it is pope being a "judgmental moron" either.
You didn't reply as to what you think of birth control either.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 1:42pm Mr Forks wrote:
Perhaps Hoist was the result of faulty birth control!
On 8 Mar 2011 at 1:47pm pope wrote:
Its a pity hoist that your parents never practiced birth control, then maybe they would not have produced a moron like you. I have been looking back on your past comments on previous threads and you come over as a really sad person whoes only pleasure in life is to try and upset other people. Well grow up and get a life. And if I was you ere be monsters I would not rise to his bait as obviously he gets a big kick out of it. If he replies again and obviously he will, just ignore him or her.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 2:11pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
You don't have to stoop to Hoists level (bit of an odd one that stoop down, hoist up!!). Never mind.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 2:13pm Cat Lover wrote:
EBM, I doubt you will get an answer or original point of view from Hoist, see her posts in cat related threads earlier.
The article to which she refers is a quarter of a century old! Was Hoist even born when this was written? Given her childish antics on here, I doubt it.
As for Red nose day - It's not funny anymore! same as Comic releif is not funny anymore. Is it not time to try a new idea?
On 8 Mar 2011 at 2:25pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
That's why I kept asking.
Not sure exactly what it achieves. It's put 4 has beens in a slum for a week. Big deal.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 2:52pm Head teacher wrote:
There isn't a single thread on here that doesn't descend into a childish slanging match....
It is very depressing...
On 8 Mar 2011 at 3:33pm pope wrote:
We could start a new forum Head Teacher. One for mature adults and one for trolls and idiots like Hoist. Getting back to birth control I do believe that China adopted a policy where they limited families to either one or two children and after that they received no child benefit. Also in poverty areas like we have seen recently on the t/v I would have thought producing children was the last thing on their minds. Perhaps the husbands need to be taught how selfish it is to make a baby when it ends up starving to death because of the lack of food and medicine. Every time I see pictures of these dear little mites my sympathy goes to the child and not the parents.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 4:19pm bastian wrote:
Pope,it was adisaster for china as the mortality rate of girls miraculously went up in a few years and now they have a a huge male population and not enough women which has caused all sorts of problems from aggression to lack of self esteem in their male population.Besides all of this the problems in Africa etc are generated by the constant meddling by european governments over many years(hundreds in some cases)and by the Catholic church which only last year decided to make it ok to use condoms.Because of this the average age of an adult is 38....think about that,it's a country of all young people who don't expect to live to 40,what have they got to lose.And then there is war,created not tribally,but because of international intavention,corperation blah blah...Famine because of war people have to move around in droves...So I guess if we messed it up then we should try to help on a philonthropic basis...but if you can't afford to you don't have to,no one will think any less of you,after all it's a tight year for us all and poverty is relevent to where you live.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 5:36pm pope wrote:
Interesting points Bastian, especially about China I didnt realise that. I might change my pen name from Pope to Archbishop as I am not a Catholic and dont share their views. Anyway its a sad old world and the more help we can give the underdog the better. Nice to see the sun today.
On 8 Mar 2011 at 7:20pm bastian wrote:
There,we didn't even need to open the guardian,glad to be of service archbishop
On 8 Mar 2011 at 9:48pm Maclachlan wrote:
Pope. The quality of your reasoning is an argument in favour of birth control. I'm sure I don't have to patronise you by pointing out that population growth in Africa is caused by a toxic cocktail of ignorance, poverty and religion. It's not reasonable to blame the people that are in this mess because of your own inability to follow current affairs.
I looked at the article posted by hoist and it could have been written yesterday, more's the pity.
On 9 Mar 2011 at 8:50am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
There's a direct correlation between female adult literacy and falling birth rates in the developing world. While this is probably because it's easier to get the message across to literate women, it's always made me think of them sitting around of a night saying "Not tonight dear, I want to finish my book".
Of course if you have to walk miles for water and firewood, it's handy to have lots of kids to do it for you. And where there's no welfare, you need them to care for you in your old age, too.
On 9 Mar 2011 at 1:43pm pope wrote:
Maclachlan, I am also sure that I dont have to patronise you when I never said that the people were to blame for having the children. I said that as well as aid in the form of money they should also be educated in birth control. If your inability to read my post correctly then perhaps you would not be so quick to shoot your mouth off. I am beginning to think Hoist has adopted a new pen name. And as for you A.C.T. having children just to carry water and firewood for you and look after you in old age is not working as most of the children die before they reach this helpful age adding more of a burden to the parents.
On 9 Mar 2011 at 2:23pm Williamdyer wrote:
Why the high birth rate? In part to cope with high child mortality, partly religion, partly cultural. Add in lack of access to birth control, no welfare state to speak of, and early sexual activity and pregnancy and you're getting close to an answer.
Address any one of these issues and you may change the birth rate. Address more than one and you've got a fighting chance.
Not really being on for adhom
On 9 Mar 2011 at 4:24pm bastian wrote:
You forgot to mention that rape is unbelievably high in parts of Africa
On 9 Mar 2011 at 4:28pm Old Cynic wrote:
If we look back at our own history there have been periods where the infant mortality rates have been shockingly high and as WilliamS suggests the reasons for high birth/mortality rates are many - economics being just one. Attempts to lower birth rates in the UK up until Marie Stopes pioneering work were often viewed with a certain amount of hostility and suspicion (ie men demanding their conjugal rights, children making up part of the familly workforce, etc)
Who are we (in the West, or white or middle class, christian or whatever) to tell other human beings YOU can have children and YOU cant?
On 9 Mar 2011 at 5:00pm jrsussex wrote:
Birth control - In the case of Catholics never under-estimate the power of the church's teachings of a few years ago, very different in this day and age. I know, I come from an Irish catholic family of 15, Why? Because my father was from Ireland, brought up in the Catholic religion as was my English mother and in those days would not go against the church. If you had been married for 2 years and had not had a child the priest would come to your house and demand to know why.
When I was a child large families were not unusual in the Catholic community. Now, thank God, Catholics do practice birth control, and yet it is interesting that whilst it is quite obvious that they do, they often deny it.
Incidentally my father never, apart from a 1 week stay in hospital, claimed state benefits. He worked all his life.
On 9 Mar 2011 at 5:27pm Its Not Rocket Science wrote:
I don't think the problem is down to birth control as such, but the fact that in recent years, the factors that used to keep the world population under control, famine, disease etc., are no longer doing so. It stands to reason, with advances in medicine keeping people alive for much longer, the population is going to snowball to unsustainable levels. It is not just people in developing countries having too many children, it is the same all over the world, and it is only going to get worse. Question is, how do you solve that problem?
On 9 Mar 2011 at 7:18pm pope wrote:
It appears after reading all the comments that no-one appears to have the answer so let us continue to support the symptoms and ignore the cause. Or as Cynic replied " Who are we to suggest that birth control can solve a lot of problems". Remember that when you see these poor little mites on the T/V covered in flies and obviously very ill or dying.
On 9 Mar 2011 at 7:30pm Old Cynic wrote:
Actually Pope I suggested that no one (especially us in the developed western world) has the right to tell another (person / state) that they can or cannot have children. I am aware that there are charities working in the the developing world to develop birth control programmes and education - but it has to be voluntary - we can't force birth control on those who don't want it / understand it or fear it - that way lies eugenics and horrors of that sort - especially to salve the conscience of people like Pope. I sponsor 'poor little mites' out of my pay packet every month and have done for years - Pope what do you do?
On 9 Mar 2011 at 7:35pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
Old Cynic "Who are we (in the West, or white or middle class, christian or whatever) to tell other human beings YOU can have children and YOU cant?" You are absolutely right, just as those who do insist on having children they cannot support have no right to expect the rest to pick up the bill.
On 10 Mar 2011 at 9:47am Pope wrote:
Old Cynic. You ask me what I do, well for a start I dont brag about it. You are talking sense e.b.m.
On 10 Mar 2011 at 12:21pm Old Cynic wrote:
EBM - we don't pick up the bill do we
Pope - I'm not bragging - at least I do something rather than bleat about how it upsets you when it come on the TV as I said what do you do - put your hand in your pocket or say hoew horrid and change TV channels
On 10 Mar 2011 at 5:38pm pope wrote:
Old Cynic. You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
On 10 Mar 2011 at 8:17pm Bishop wrote:
I agree with pope sterilize the buggers
On 11 Mar 2011 at 11:25am Old Cynic wrote:
Good to see tolerance, kindheartedness and generosity to those worse off than yourself are alive and well.
Pope and Bishop I hope you get what you both deserve
On 11 Mar 2011 at 1:24pm Bishop wrote:
I was only joking! Just trying to draw out the reality of Pope's position.
On 11 Mar 2011 at 1:45pm vicar wrote:
Surely it is more appropriate to be less draconian. I suggest just lopping off an arm or leg if they can't afford a whole child.
On 11 Mar 2011 at 3:51pm pope wrote:
Hi Bishop, for one moment I thought you was on my side then you had to grovel to Old Cynic and say you were only joking. That remark he made about us both getting what we deserve, Well he certainly got what he deserved by ending up a bitter and twisted old man ( Mind you Old Cynic could be a woman you never know with pen names ).
On 11 Mar 2011 at 4:05pm Chaplain wrote:
What about people who have children and then find that they can't afford them after all? What if people lose their jobs or become ill and can't work? What are we going to do about them?
I suggest taking the children off them straight away and giving them to a more deserving family. To prevaracate would only be cruel. And possibly we should sterilise the children so that they don't pass on their parent's faulty workshy genes.
It's just a thought.