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Question For Labour / Green

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On 13 Apr 2017 at 12:12pm Newms wrote:
Jason Sugarman, ( the previous Conservative candidate ),got a vote of 18401. Maria Caulfield polled 19206. The Liberals, however ,lost ground from 26048 to 18123.
These votes were lost to Labour and Greens who got 5000 and 2784 respectively
.In a nutshell the Liberals lost more to the left than Conservative to the right, and with the Conservative Party now indistinguishable from UKIP we can be pretty sure Caulfield will get some of those 5427 UKIP votes.
Its harsh to say so but basically those who supported Lloyd Russel-Moyle( Labour ) and Alfie Stirling ( Green) gifted this seat to Brexit Maria. She now sits in splendour , on the Brexit committee steering us from tolerance and prosperity to isolation and declineWhat do Green and Labour voters think about this ?
I`d be interested to know ,I don`t have a right answer or anything but it would be fascinating to know what people are thinking
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 12:27pm Grafter wrote:
Some of my wealthier friends and clients are Green voters.
They are usually nice, educated,comfortably off and deeply alienated from working class culture which they despise.On the whole they are arts grads rather than stem or tech. Someone with MCs background would be out of their depth in their social circles.
The libs desire power like all of us but paid a high price for their compliance with the tories.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:01pm Clifford wrote:
Grafter wrote: 'They are usually nice, educated,comfortably off and deeply alienated from working class culture which they despise.'

You have a strange idea of 'nice', Grafter, if you consider nice people 'despise' working class culture. It sounds to me more like they are up themselves, your 'wealthier friends'.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:31pm Pol wrote:
Greens are the hywhitist party around. Minorities just don't seem to care very much about environmental issues. Probably too busy being oppressed or something.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:42pm The Greek wrote:
Former Green voter/member turned Labour member and activist here. I'd like to see a "progressive alliance" of left-wing parties to win an election, force through electoral reform and then call another election on a fairer system.

I've always said the Tory victories are due to vote splitting on the left, which happens much less on the right. The Tories are the common enemy with the minority of people voting for them.

Labour's targeting of the Green party during the 2015 election was shameful.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:43pm The Greek wrote:
Labour needs to embrace this idea and attempt to unite the left, much as Cameron tried to do with his referendum (but without such a catastrophic and ill-judged mechanism!)
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:56pm Sussex Jim wrote:
I think you have summed up the Greens well there, Grafter. My vision of a "green" is one who has a basic car like a 2CV; then drives it all the way down Ham Lane to the dump to be seen recycling a few bottles or cans.
Unlike a local well-known character who votes Tory but walks there with his recyclables in a carrier bag.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 1:59pm @Grafter wrote:
I have to laugh at your comments Grafter, I get what you're trying to say but your post is frankly worrying (how low is your opinion of these people?).
I fail to see how you can be either "nice" or "educated" if you despise another class or culture, I doubt these people are either nice or educated (unless you meant "badly educated").
I also fail how anyone can be "out of their depth" in the shallow social circle you've described (unless you meant "not accepted")?
My experience of "Arts grads" is nothing like you're suggesting.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27pm Zebedee wrote:
I voted Green at the last election Paul despite being very aware that many people doing so could split the Lib Dem voted (as had recently happened in my village of Barcombe, resulting in the election of most udless of our couincillors yet, the hideous and dishonorable Donna Edmunds).

I was very torn between voting for Norman, an MP I respected (even when in power with the Tories) and for a party whose aims I most closely identified with, the Greens. It was a close call but I thought the election provided the best Greens chance the party had ever had to raise it's profile, and that I should be counted as a Green supporter. I hoped others would bite the bullet too and give up with tactical voting in the hope that a truer picture could be shown of the actual support t party had. I don't regret my decision, even if it did result in the election of the bandwagon hopping Brexiteer Maria Caulfield. You can only go on so long voting for a party you don't actually want in power.

And Grafter... I have an engineering background.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 2:53pm The Greek wrote:
Same on all three counts Zebedee.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 3:00pm Zebedee wrote:
So, in my straw poll Grafter 100% of Green voters are engineers. :-)
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 3:29pm Grafter wrote:
This is going well.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 3:34pm Sad wrote:
What a bunch of t0ssers you are. Really it is so sad to read some of the above posts.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:01pm Clifford wrote:
Sad wrote: 'What a bunch of t0ssers you are. Really it is so sad to read some of the above posts.'

And yet, Sad, you plough your way through them and even go as far as commenting. It does make me wonder who the tosser is.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:01pm The Old Mayor wrote:
With house prices bein what they are in Lewes, you'd imagine it was a very conservative town !! Demographics definitely a changing !!
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:08pm Newms wrote:
Zebedee, I voted for Maria Caulfield, a fact I find hard to believe, so I certainly won`t criticise anyone else. For me, not that it matters, but Farron has said he wants the Liberal Party to be a home for centrist ex Conservatives who detest Brexit, so I shall support them, in a small way.
Others may feel the Greens or whoever are right for them, fine I am not an engineer, but I do have a job and a family, so it’s a question of a leaflet or two , pat myself on the back ,and back to real life ….
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:19pm Dunk wrote:
It was hard seeing the Tories get Lewes back. I voted for Norm in 1997 but he wasn't supportive of the Seagulls so because of that, and the decision to prop up the Tories for 5 years, I did not feel I could vote for him, even holding my nose. I will probably go back to voting Lib Dem next time and I would expect them to do well in Lewes.
It is worth noting that I am awful at predicting election results. I thought Norm would still win here and that Ed Miliband would be PM now.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:33pm bobobob wrote:
I dislike that the electorate are charged with making these decisions so vote for who I believe rather than with any tactics.
In time I hope we'll get proportional representation and then maybe a few coalition governments which will teach our feckless politicians to behave
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:42pm @newms wrote:
Do you have a life?
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 4:56pm bobobob wrote:
^^Well, we know you don't
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 5:02pm Grafter wrote:
I'm thinking of starting the Engineering Party. More stats, fewer t?ats.
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On 13 Apr 2017 at 5:35pm Mark wrote:
I'm more interested in why Sussex Jim's friend walks to the tip with his bottles in a plastic bag? He'll probably be going past 4 or 5 bottle banks on the way. Seems odd.
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On 14 Apr 2017 at 10:51am John Stockdale wrote:
Newms, In going into Government the Lib Dems lost most of the protest vote (about 5% of the electorate). Curiously it largely migrated from the most pro-EU party to UKIP. I suspect the 5,000 Kippers will not transfer as a bloc to Maria and many will just stop voting. The biggest question mark has to be what happens to the non-voters who woke up to vote in the referendum. They voted anti-establishment in 2016. What will they do when the new establishment gets stuck into a really heavy programme of austerity and the vile Great Repeal Bill? I just wish the Corbynistas had the good sense that Tony Benn and his supporters showed when they kept schtumm to let Blair win his landslide. Better for them a lefty government that can achieved a majority and get things done than a hard left opposition that keeps the faith but can do nothing.
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On 14 Apr 2017 at 12:33pm Tom Pain wrote:
Better a lefty government to lie to the people and drag us into a neo-con war for middle East plunder???
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On 14 Apr 2017 at 5:29pm Fairmeadow wrote:
John Stockdale: If the Great Repeal Bill is to incorporate all current EU law into British law why on earth should a pro-EU LibDem think it vile?????
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On 14 Apr 2017 at 6:46pm Newms wrote:
Fairmeadow , the second it is British law the Conservative Party can start changing it. That , for the blues, is the whole point
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On 14 Apr 2017 at 10:20pm Fairmeadow wrote:
True, and (despite not being a blue) I hope they do change some of it, but by the usual democratic process in a Parliament where the government has rebels to appease and a small overall majority.
But surely better from the Remoaner perspective to have it all incorporated into British law now than just to let it all lapse when we leave the EU? Given that we are now definitely going to leave, I would have expected the Remoaners to have been all in favour and the opposition to come from the UKIP fringe.
Some Remoaners seem to imagine that somehow, if they just close their eyes tight enough, leaving the EU isn't really going to happen. That would like someone who has told they spouse they don't love them them and want a divorce then changing their mind and pretending it all never happened because they have discovered their new housing situation isn't quite what they had hoped. That is just never going to work, is it? Most people, either side of the divide, can see we have passed the point of no return. We never had a very good deal from the EU, and it certainly wouldn't get any better if we decided to change our minds and try to negotiate our way back in!
There is only one way to go, and that is forward. There are different possible routes, but it isn't just our decision which ones are open to us. As we have already seen, getting the solicitors involved is not necessarily helpful in reaching the solution that works best for all parties. Any clever mediators free? That nice Mr Obama will soon get bored with being on holiday.
 
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On 15 Apr 2017 at 7:26am Newms wrote:
Fairmeadow, I don`t know what has happened to you. I used to think you were sensible enough fellow but since Brexit you have lost your way.
The government has a 16% poll lead .They don`t have to appease anyone because May can go the country at any time. This is also why we have abandoned an intermediate EEA position ( et al) which would have otherwise been fair reflection of the referendum.
The “No Laws at all much” scenario you describe Is not a real one and can be ignored . The process of dismantling the social safeguards that are part of the EU market is the only issue and either you support it or not .
The only people charting the way forward at the moment are the lunatic octogenarian gin swilling idiots of the Conservative Party membership. Hence Empire 2 Grammars , Blue passports and polite ethnic cleansing .
Ms Caulfield will no doubt appreciate your support for her position which is , “ Oh well its done now “ ,and, as you might expect, insults the intellect of a Field mouse. The “best deal for the UK” about which we are supposed to unite, is in fact the closest possible relationship with Europe.
Caulfield will not deliver that before the devil skates to work.
This will be the issue the next ten years, at least,and who is to say quite where we will end up. ,as the consequences of Brexit become clear. Back in the EU in all but name is one possibility which I intend to do my best to support.
To this end and for other reasons I shall be supporting Ms Blundell and the Liberal Party, if you wish to support Ms Caulfield or abstain from the real contest I respect that proto Fascist, evil ,corrupted, foolish, and generally despicable position …
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On 15 Apr 2017 at 9:05am Fairmeadow wrote:
In my opinion Mrs May correctly identified the main reason for the referendum vote as the Very high levels of UK population growth arising from the freedom of movement required by the EU. Nothing against the individuals: it's the numbers that have the impact.
I believe that, as herself a remainer, she would like to negotiate the closest deal she can get to the present situation that does not include freedom of movement.
Given the current EU intransigence on this issue, it rather looks as if the best deal available on those terms is no deal at all.
It is in both parties' interests to reach a more sensible agreement but, as in divorce negotiations, people sometimes don't put the best mutual outcome as their top objective, and with the help of press and public posturing that looks to be happening here on the EU side of the negotiations. That is their decision. Not within our control.
Where we perhaps differ is that I think Britain has the better hand. We already, for example, buy and sell cars successfully with countries outside the EU. We can do just the same with the other EU countries. The balance of trade is such that we can use the tariffs we charge on incoming VWs and BMWs to subsidise those charged on our outgoing Toyotas and Hondas, and still show a tidy profit. The current balance of trade means this applies broadly across the board. A very likely consequence is that the balance of trade will move in our favour as we have to adapt.
 
 
On 18 Apr 2017 at 10:58am bobobob wrote:
If your assertion holds that we will benefit from tariffs in the car market as we export more than we import, doesn't it follow that as a net importer of goods from the EU we will lose out overall?
That contradicts the point you're trying to prove


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