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Phoenix development (again)

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On 22 Mar 2015 at 10:24am lewes born and bred wrote:
Does anyone know if there's any actual plans on line to see what's going where and what actual area is being covered by the project.
No hidden agenda, just interested and slightly excited by the project.
Thanks
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 10:35am Interested too wrote:
A definite link to a plan would be good - I've searched and not found a lot
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 12:15pm Belladonna wrote:
Apparently link on planning website isn't working....
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 1:11pm John Stockdale wrote:
Have a look on Santon's North Street Quarter website (link below). There are links to a series of leaflets on different aspects of the scheme. The application itself contains over 800 documents. I'm wading through some of them and I'll try to post a list of ones that IMO merit more attention. But, I've no plans to read through 40 plus documents on contamination. I think there is a case for a more user-friendly or simplified version of the papers or an exhibition for those who want to read a bit more than what's on the leaflets. The SDNP website was working when I went on it a few minutes ago, but it's a bit slow.

Check it out here »
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 3:45pm lewes born and bred wrote:
I would've thought that anyone submitting plans of this magnitude would be very proud and be flaunting their project as much as possible.
Even the Sussex Depress have failed to come up with a plan.
As i first said, no agenda, just interested and genuinely looking forward to it
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 4:19pm xplorer1 wrote:
Santon has held a series of consultations in the town, weekday and weekend, day and evening, as their plans have evolved, showing exactly what's planned. I'm not defending them (far from it) but they've hardly kept it a secret. As well as their own website, there's a good SDNPA web-page that leads into the plans: check it out.

Check it out here »
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 4:44pm Jude wrote:
Ive tried wading through the plans but the SDNP is SO slow it's impossible !
Why are there no final plans on display in town ?? They were keen enough to sell the idea, but I am interested in the final proposals once they have taken all the community comments into account from the consultations. The previous plans at the consultations were all notional.
I'm still concerned that once planning goes through the site will be sold off to developers piecemeal who then only have to confirm to the design principals laid down by the planning permission (if given). So really, what is on the plans becomes redundant anyway.
I'm also very peed off that the one building of Lewes industrial heritage - the old ironworks - is being demolished. Surely this should be the centrepiece of any development ? Could it not have been the community hub of the plans ??
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On 22 Mar 2015 at 7:54pm bastian wrote:
Do any of their plans take into consideration the newly placed Bioshere thingy that covers Lewes and Falmer now, where all new building projects have to be built sustainabley and have solar panels and catch rain water for flushing toilets, that kind of thing?
I know they say they are built from locally souirced material etc but they must now comply with these more stringent rules to-and the National Park needs to support this idea to-it's about the future really, not just building without thinking.
And there still isn't any reserved space for the elderly-strangely we could end up with a town where the elderly and the young have to live in Newhaven-who does that leave living in lewes? it could be a very strange demographic.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 5:54am townie wrote:
Shut up Bastian. Do you ever have anything positive to say. I bet you're one of lifes complainers, you sit behind your curtains in your twee semi and ring the council when the neighbours young lad drops a crisp packet or someone drives past at 32mph.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 8:19am Clifford wrote:
A very strange definition of 'positive' you have Townie. It seems to be 'Never question anything, accept what you're given.' Bastian's comments seem eminently positive to me - asking relevant questions about a project that will have a drastic impact on Lewes. (Sorry, Bastian. I know you're well able to defend yourself).
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 12:52pm stevet wrote:
Jude - the SDNPA website states all the plans are available to view at:
Lewes Town Hall, High Street, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 2Q5
Lewes Library, Styles Field, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 2LZ (due to limited space at the Library only key reports will be available for inspection)
LDC Council Offices, Southover House, Southover Road, Lewes, East Sussex, BN7 1AB
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 1:55pm John Stockdale wrote:
SDNP have extended the formal consultation period for North Street Quarter application to 30 April. The Committee hearing is likely to take place summer/early autumn.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 2:26pm bastian wrote:
There are those who think, not only about thier own future, but also the future of others, and there are those who just don't think!
I wonder where the name Townie comes from?
It's an insult round here. I love the country side and I hate to see it wrecked just so a handful of people can make a profit over the heads of the country people. I also like to see ademographic that extends to all generations, becasue that is something that Lewes has always been about, you see it in bonfire where the old show the young how to do things to keep the tarditions going. It helps the young to feel part of life and the old to feel valued. On the projections you see in the news paper there isn't anyone in a wheel chair, or over 60, or in a hoodie!! it's not real life, and the sun is always shining, they couldn't sell it to you if it were not drawn up like that, and how slick computers make designs look-it has to work in real life, for real people, you acnnot just cleanse them out of the picture-or out of the real world.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 3:38pm townie wrote:
What countryside are you referring to Bastian ? From what i can see, they'll be knocking down an asbestos clad shanty town and rebuilding the same area with a vibrant new residential, commercial and industrial area that will benefit everyone.
Moan moan moan
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 4:21pm bastian wrote:
We are in the South Downs National Park-you mere minded one, that IS the country side and the people of this small country town are the country people who make Lewes amazing. What is left of our industrial histroy is about to give way to commerce and tourism, that is hardly vibrant. look up, there are hills all around you, if this plan goes ahead in its unaposed state, it will let the developers into EVERY National Park in England, then all those quaint places you love to go to on holiday in the west country will get scarred in the same way-and Lewes will be held up as an example of the town that destroyed the principal of what National Parks mean, PRESERVATION-TRADITION of the country side. Bonfire is getting pushed out of town, by people who don't want the noise, mess and possibly the excitment to. Can you imagine the new owners of the posh riverside houses letting Waterloo set off aerials opposite their houses? I don't think so, and in the mean time, everyone is having trouble finding places to build and store their stuff for the 5th.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 4:37pm Humbert wrote:
Bastian is right. Unfortunately I feel a sense of inevitability that we'll get something foisted on us that very few want or benefit from.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 5:06pm GhostBike wrote:
I'm not without criticisms of the proposed development, and I certainly would like to see affordable housing provided.
But ultimately, people will live in the houses that are built; they won't be empty. I don't see anyone talking about what they will bring to the town. They may start businesses, or bring new skill sets to Lewes that mean it is more viable for a company to move here. Equally, Lewes is crying out for more market housing which is suitable for families. There simply isn't enough available - and what is is massively expensive. Surely building more homes will bring prices down - or at least stop them going up?
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 6:35pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Demand is so high for houses in Lewes, a couple of hundred ugly modern builds down North Street are unlikely to have much impact. Also the chances of anyone buying one starting a business down here with employees is pretty slim, current trends would suggest most will be bought by people moving down from London or across from Brighton. Sure they'll spend a bit of money in town but Ocado will probably be the biggest beneficiaries.

I think the biggest risk is that whatever commercial or industrial uses are included are priced too high and don't attract tenants. If that happens it will be taken as proof that there is no future for any form of development in Lewes other than expensive houses and then we really will turn into a dormitory town.

In terms of new residents objecting to Waterloo's display on the fifth, it won't be up to them, it's a firework display happening on publicly owned land following all the rules and procedures for such a thing, they wouldn't have grounds to do anything about it. If anything, a clear view of the third best display in Lewes might be a selling point for the new houses.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 6:46pm waterloo'er wrote:
2nd best thank you (behind Com Sq) lol
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 7:14pm Guy wrote:
I'm a Lewes born and bred countryside chap. I'd much rather not have Waterloo setting off their fireworks near my house but - just like the new residents of North Street - I don't have a great deal of influence.
I'm all for a certain amount of preservation and tradition but I can also cope with change. I agree though that any development needs to deliver low cost industrial units but I don't have a high level of confidence that it will happen.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 8:58pm No Pot Pourri wrote:
Maybe it is the case that if you want industrial uses, you live in Lewes (where lots of people want to live) and set up business in Newhaven (where there is lots of available business land). Will that not be of benefit to both places?
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 9:12pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Haha, I thought I was being pretty generous with third best.
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On 23 Mar 2015 at 9:47pm GhostBike wrote:
Ed - seeing that there are usually only a handful of houses on the market at any one time in Lewes, half of which are on the verge of dereliction and the other half massively overpriced, I can't see how hundreds of new houses won't have an effect.
Even if it doesn't, you can see how this sort of behaviour in every town in the country, every suburb, every village, all adds up to explaining why we have a massive shortage of housing in this country. And that is why prices are so high.
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 8:54am SkeletalScooter wrote:
Well said GB . Being old enough to remember the Ironworks and the cement works I also remember the fanfares that announced the "Phoenix Causeway" and the "Folkstone to Honiton Trunk Road" and how they would bring so much to Lewes. What they brought is not what I imagined @ the time, but then I was young and naive
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 1:57pm bastian wrote:
When it comes to moving bsinesses out to Newhaven whilst living in Lewes, you do have to remember that the people who work in the factories etc are not paid that much and would have to pay transport on top of living costs, that is why the National Park bangs on about keeping jobs in towns where people live. Newhaven could do with a leg up, ever since the Port was privatised it has struggled to open all year and is nothing like the port it used to be for fishing or goods-and it has suffered for that. When we are talking about transport costs (there will be a flurry of people replying who will go on about how they have to pay to take a train to London so why shouldn't other people spend out on Transport)-well the answer is that the jobs down here are not paid much more than the minimum wage, and that costs for travel are a sting in the pocket to those who then find themselves working outside of their home town in order that someone can build houses ,that they cannot afford to live in, on the place that their job was based. It used to be said that rates of pay in rural areas were based on agricultural labourers wages, that's what kept them down. Ther are now so few acgricultural labourers that the wages are just kept down by a national culture of stingyness in the markets. It's going to be very hard for the future youth of Lewes.
Cue backlash of "get on your bike" replys.
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 5:26pm Norm Tebutt wrote:
Get yer butt on yer saddle
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 6:05pm Old Malling wrote:
Many local 'lads' learnt their trades in the small businesses in North Street. Many are now self employed skilled craftsmen. It would be very sad to see that end.
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 6:25pm bastian wrote:
Quite so. i have heard that the date to write to the National Park with your views ahs been extended from 5th of April to 30th of April. Any concerns you have can be put into writing or email and sent to them at:
Ref. No. SDNP/15/01146/FUL
Or write to
Tim Bettany-Simmons (quoting ref. no) at:
South Downs Centre,
North St,
Midhurst,
West Sussex,
GU29 9DH
They have specific areas that are of concern to them in our (the people of Lewes') interests. these categories are:
• Purpose 1: ‘… conserving and enhancing the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the areas specified...’
• Purpose 2: ‘… promoting opportunities and the understanding and enjoyment of the special qualities of those areas by the public.’
• Duty of a National Park authority ‘…..shall seek to foster the economic and social well-being of communities within the National Park.’
Circular 2010
• By 2030 English National Parks will be places where: ‘Sustainable development can be seen in action. The communities of the Parks take an active part in decisions about their future.’
Plesae thionk about taking part in preserving what YOU, the people of this town want and need for your children in the future.
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 9:27pm Belladonna wrote:
I would urge anyone who has even the slightest concern or doubt about any aspect of this proposed development to object very specifically and strongly. No one is against redevelopment of the site but it has to be RIGHT for Lewes. I'm not sure the Phoenix proposals are right either but they are at least thinking very specifically about what will fit Lewes' needs and are local people driving it forward.
Interestingly it appears that each of the locations for public display of the plans do not have enough room to hold them all ! There are over 800 documents!!!!
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On 24 Mar 2015 at 10:19pm development wrote:
I think the plans look very good and are tailored to meet most of the needs of the town. I think we should grab this opportunity with both hands and I believe it will really regenerate a very poorly utilised area. I am supporting the proposals and hope they are successful and that the development happens as soon as possible!
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On 25 Mar 2015 at 1:56pm bastian wrote:
we won't be druv!
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On 26 Mar 2015 at 6:45pm Down South wrote:
cant believe how naive these people are who believe the developers. what does Santon care about Lewes. Profit profit and riverside flats for rich peope
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On 26 Mar 2015 at 9:07pm South down wrote:
I certainly don't believe phoenix rising as they don't have the finances and therefore the experience or capability to pull off what they are campaigning for however they are negotiating. Take the investment that is being offered and work with the developer during the consultation process to negotiate and meet somewhere near your side. You can't have everything you want but all in lewes need to benefit along with future generations not just a minority, see it as an opportunity. Charles stiles tried to build a high rise multi storey car park and we stopped it as it didn't make sense but this time it does and we all have a lot to gain. We are not naive at all, far from it. Lewes born and bred and my children and my parents.


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