Lewes Forum thread

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Phoenix

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On 1 Oct 2015 at 7:12pm Wasteland wrote:
I hear from a tenant there that Santon will be bulldozing the first phase starting before March 2016 regardless of planning for a new development being approved .
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 12:46am Townie wrote:
About time too. Let's get this project done.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 12:51am snoopy wrote:
@townie. how will you personally and the town as a whole gain from the development as it stands?
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 12:51am Red wrote:
If they are to build 200+ houses on the fields behind Malling do we need to destroy the Phoenix now?
And if we do and in 6 years when there will be close to 700 new homes in Lewes will we get a new school and other infrastructure to accommodate all the incomers
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 6:15am Lewes resident wrote:
So you are suggesting develop greenfield sites before brownfield sites ? I agree about looking after town and regional needs and making sure infrastructure comes with it , I thought that is why we have all spent a fortune in costs and time developing local plans so we can comply with them and ensure sustained future growth happens , when it comes to it we all then simply ignore that ! Really !
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 6:48am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
The population of Lewes increased from 16,000 to 20,000 between the 2001 and 2011 censuses.
I wonder what it will be after the 2021 census, with all these new homes?
Maybe we should have a forum sweepstake.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 10:29am Clifford wrote:
I'd love to know who the poor (probably unpaid) 'intern' is who has to click the thumbs up sign for any post in favour of Santos and thumbs down for any against. He or she will obviously go far.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 11:05am Townie wrote:
@snoopy, Can you tell me how it benefits me now, because I can't !!!!!
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 11:33am Townie wrote:
People have got to have somewhere to live.
The way i see it is....we can all sit here in our nice cosy homes ramming our opinions down everyone's throats but what happened before our houses were built? Were the local residents up in arms because the last census showed Lewes had a population of 5,000 people and "could it dare rise to 6,000 in the next 10 years".
Things change, people move on and others arrive. Who knows what the town will be like in 50, 100, 200 years time...a city perhaps ?
What i know is that we need more places for people to live, it's getting desperate. The Phoenix quater is desperate for developing and so are the scrub areas behind Tesco.
Yes we'll need more schools, doctors, nurseries etc etc but i'm sure they'll get built as needed.
Some of you need to play the game "Sim City".....it's awesome
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 12:38pm snoopy wrote:
@Townie Shame that you can't answer the question - it was an honest question because I really can't see the brilliant deal Lewes is getting in exchange giving up land and for the loss of jobs, youth provision & the Artistic community. Can anyone on this forum tell me?
At present the site brings many diverse skills, revenue, prestige, creativity, well being, diversity & people into the town - I can't be bothered to look it up the pound figures but it's somewhere on the Santon/LPR websites.
This diverse local employment helps our Town ride the economic twists and turns that have devastated some single economy towns. Get off your PS2 and get down there and have a look around - you will be pleasantly surprised that their will no hippies dancin' naked around a fire.
The Housing issue keeps coming up - I and most agree Lewes and the country needs more housing.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 12:48pm Townie wrote:
I can't answer how the town will benefit or gain from the development because nobody knows. On a personal note, again, it's impossible to tell. However, if i venture onto the New Phoenix quater once, it'll be one more than i've ever needed to in the past.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 1:25pm snoopy wrote:
@Townie. Thanks for the non answer. So you are unable to find one single reason (bit like me).
Best you stick to fantasy Sims world.
Meanwhile in the real world people are worried about loosing their job & livelihoods, indeed some already have.
Can anyone help struggling Townie answer the question?
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 2:06pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
If no-one knows how the development will benefit the town, it's hard to see how so many people can be sure it's a good thing.
Many of us can, however, see all sorts of disadvantages, many of which have been mentioned by Snoopy. To those I would add increased pressure on schools, medical services, roads and parking, to name but 4 (Townie's faith that "they'll get built as needed" is touching, but nave imo), and the likely demographic shift to an even more affluent enclave.
Lewes is a lovely, diverse town and becoming a dormitory town for the wealthy will ruin its character imo.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 3:18pm snoopy wrote:
The silence from the pro-camp says everything about their argument - NOTHING. Come out from behind the sofa - Snoopy won't bite!
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 4:42pm TDA wrote:
Our family have used Furniture Now, Starfish, Lewes Bread Club, the Skatepark, Zu Studios, Cafe des Artistes, The Car Parts place, The Foundry and enjoyed visiting The Phoenix on its open days.
When it's all gone I'm not sure why I'll ever visit again. Marks and Spencer socks maybe. That's it.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 5:11pm No Pot Pourri wrote:
I use Wenbans, Car Parts, Furniture Now and the gym and have used the garage in the past. Could do with getting rid of the crusty vans and a bit of redevelopment. It may look better if it is not developed all at once, so it can evolve a bit.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 5:28pm Bod wrote:
It's all about the money imp. Can't see any benefit in the planned development. Stop ruining Lewes you greedy property developers!
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 5:32pm OffRoad wrote:
Once again, no mention of the people who will actually live in the houses that will be built.
Lewes needs to make its contribution to building the houses that the country needs.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 6:10pm Convenient wrote:
@clifford do you honestly think Santon could be arsed to give 7 thumbs down on a forum that has no bearing in their plans
@ACT. You're right if we don't know how it will benefit us we also don't know how great it might become .
@TDA is there going to be a Marks and Spencer ? I've never used any of those businesses you mentioned but an M&S would be great , their clothes may leave a little to be desired but excellent food , do you know who else is going there ?
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:06pm bastian wrote:
it is illegal to bulldoze any site of that age without planning permission-if they do that, they jeopodise actually obtaining planning permission in a ntional park.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:07pm Jez we can. wrote:
Convenient I think there are a whole pile of dirty tricks people use on this forum and other forums, for a whole pile of different reasons.
The worst reason I've heard of so far is satire?
He's a totally Brainless Dipsh!t!
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:16pm Jez you can't wrote:
give it a rest or I'll have to run to webbo
 
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:21pm Jez the Girly. wrote:
Run Run all the way to that rock you call home..
I wish you would..
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:24pm Jobs lost wrote:
1700 at a steelworks. Puts the phoenix into perspective.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:48pm Bod wrote:
What benefit is the Santon proposal to the people of Lewes? If people want a bland development, why are you living in the South Downs National Park in a county town with great character and beauty offset by its natural environment and not Milton Keynes or somewhere? Yes more housing is good, and businesses are vital, but I don't see the Santon proposal fulfilling these needs. This is our town, it shouldn't be destroyed by greedy property developers and a district council that represents those outside of Lewes predominantly. I can't see any benefit, in fact I can only see problems relating to Lewes' infrastructure, particularly traffic and roads.
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On 2 Oct 2015 at 7:54pm lewes wrote:
Can't wait for the new development to get started it's going to be awesome. So many benefits and 416 new properties including social housing gets my vote any day! Roll on change and for the better!
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 1:51am Fairmeadow wrote:
People have to live somewhere, and we have more and more people in the UK. In this area Lewes is by far the best-connected community, with Lewes residents using more public transport and less private car travel than other District residents. Each person will generate a lot less CO2 if the new houses are in Lewes rather than in, say, Chailey. Lewes is where house prices are highest and the council waiting list longest, because it is where people want to live, which you could see as a compliment. Within Lewes new houses in the Phoenix area will be more sustainable and have less landscape impact than if they were added to the edge of the town. Wherever the new houses are built new infrastructure will be needed, and will doubtless be under provided and too late. However, government planning policy is that it would be nice to provide new infrastructure along with new development, but if the developer can't afford it, just build the houses anyway. There is a better chance of the developer helping towards the infrastructure if the new houses are in a high price area, which around here means Lewes.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 3:38am Cuban Raft Rider wrote:
416 homes completed leaving no jobs in the Phoenix.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 7:30am Withit wrote:
What about the new industrial space at Mallings in construction and the new 60000 mixed commercial in the Santon scheme long term tax paying jobs and all the construction jobs apprenticeships to build it - or don't those type of jobs count ? Ps I have read the application . We need these jobs and houses now not in another ten years
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 7:50am Convenient wrote:
@Fairmeadow. Excellent points well put .
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 8:26am bastian wrote:
withit, the rents on those units are prohibitively high-178,000 per annun!, even Webham Smith would struggle with that.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 8:58am Earl of Lewes wrote:
One of the things I like about Lewes is that it's still a working town, so I'm concerned that the balance is tipping towards it become even more of a commuter belt haven. Of course, we need more housing - imagine if they'd stopped the Nevill being built - but we have to be careful. I'd rather see net migration controlled than start concreting over the countryside and other green spaces, otherwise we'll end up living in a real Sim City - I used to play that game and it involved turning a nice piece of countryside into a huge megacity. I'm not sure it has anything to teach us, other than that there's more to life than 'growth'.
Anyway, the bottom line is that live in an unusually beautiful historic town that now, thanks to rising property prices, has attracted the attention of people who have no interest in it apart from making money. I'd be wary of greed masquerading as progress.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 9:15am lewes wrote:
You have a small minded view on the future. We need to think about our kids. More houses now and in lewes. We can't be selfish!
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 10:18am Earl of Lewes wrote:
But I think lots of us are thinking about our kids and grandchildren when we want to protect what's good about Lewes. You can build another thousand homes, but can you guarantee that they'll go to our kids? I suspect that they'll largely go to Londoners and we'll have concreted over a bit of greenery for nothing. There'd be no housing crisis if we'd introduced proper controls in the property market. Until we control net migration, stop foreign investors buying UK property and restore our social housing stock, building more homes won't be the answer.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 10:33am Townie wrote:
Trouble is Earl, is it possible, even legal to stop outsiders moving here ? I think it would be a superb idea to have an area of new builds which are available as affordable shared ownership or full mortgage for people born or who have lived in the district for 10+ years for example.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 10:37am pete manyata wrote:
Agree with Earl of Lewes - the problem begins and ends in London, where foreign investors are pushing more and more people out and into SE England. The answer is not blindly more housing, but political. Stop housing being used as an investment tool. Also, the sort of housing that everyone agrees is desperately needed is never going to be provided by a private developer like Santon.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 10:56am lewes wrote:
The higher the volume of houses the lower the prices get. Build more houses = lower prices. It's a bit like buying your supermarket shopping ie fruit prices are higher when out of season than out of season. The main problem is that the population of our island is increasing so we must build as many houses as possible to reduce demand and in turn reduce prices. Santon's proposal is the only viable option so far and we need houses now. Stiles proposal that was shut down was awful but we need to grab this one with both hands. There is provision for social housing in this development and the option for lewes people to buy 20% below market rates so we need to grab this with both hands before it's an opportunity missed. These don't come around that often so let's embrace change rather than be selfish and resist!
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 11:23am Earl of Lewes wrote:
@Townie - It's a real dilemma. On the one hand, people should be free to live where they wish, but that should also include the freedom to stay in the town where you grew up and not be priced out by speculators. Apparently, some European countries have laws that restrict this phenomenon.
@Lewes - Even with a 20% discount, my son would still have to earning three times the average wage to get a mortgage for one of these properties. It's not as simple as building more homes - you also have to factor in a growing number of people abroad who want to buy property in the UK as an investment, plus a net migration of 300,000 a year. I agree that we do need more housing - and it needs to be good quality stock that uses space efficiently, like a three-storey Georgian terrace rather than a sprawling bungalow - but let's not have a building boom unless the other factors have been fixed. And once again, we're not being selfish. Quite the opposite.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 11:50am lewes wrote:
Earl of lewes - The market rates are the market rates. Even if santon sold them at say just 20% of the market value your son may buy but would then sell at the full market rate himself so their is very little than santon can do here however they have offered 20% off and they are not legally obliged to do so. Remember there are no other developments on offer and phoenix rising are not able to pull of a project of this scale financially or otherwise. This is the best option and a really excellent one. We have to move with the times!
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 3:40pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Does moving with the times mean we have to passively accept population growth as inevitable? Where will it all end? When Lewes and Brighton merge into one conurbation? Actually we have a choice about which way we want the times to move.
Our population wouldn't be growing and house prices wouldn't be rising if we had a sensible immigration policy. Incomers from London would be fewer in number if they didn't have to compete with foreign investors for properties. None of these things ate inevitable.
The current demand is far too high and even if we built half a million homes, it still wouldn't be enough. I'm not a UKIP-voting xenophobe, I just want a sustainable solution.
Yes, let's build more housing, definitely, but let's also tackle the other issues, otherwise a large chunk of the country will resemble Milton Keynes.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 6:43pm Lewes wrote:
Yes population growth is inevitable and we are well behind so we need to catch up and build new housing in Lewes. The north street estate is the perfect place to do it and it's about time it was put to work and set to reach its potential. Looking forward to this development being given the green light asap!
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 7:30pm Convenient wrote:
@Bastian .. don't get conned into paying 178K pa , there are many other units around to rent much much cheaper , Clifford Dann have two on Brooks Rd for around 13k pa . I'm sure other agents have similar available . Good luck in re siting your business .
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 8:13pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
@Lewes - Population growth is NOT inevitable and the proposed development won't make much of a difference to anything, apart from adding congestion to the town's traffic and resources. I don't know why you're so keen, unless you're connected to the developers.
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On 3 Oct 2015 at 11:00pm lewes wrote:
I believe that Population growth is inevitable as the population is living longer and developments in improved health care are getting better and better which is why the housing prices on our relatively small island are ever increasing. The only way to keep this in check is to build more houses. I am not connected to santon and have lived in lewes all my life and realise that this is the best way forward. The land is not currently reaching its potential and once the development is built I believe that your fears will not be realised and in fact the development will add many benefits to our beautiful town.
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 8:01am Red wrote:
Are you an estate agent by any chance Lewes?
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 1:39pm lewes wrote:
No I am not an estate agent, I am a resident of lewes who embraces change why does that make me an estate agent?
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 2:22pm red wrote:
Are you a fireman by any chance?
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 4:41pm Red wrote:
Please don't use my name Lewes
But no I'm not a fireman or a carpenter or a soap manufacturer or a timber merchant or a dentist or a youth music group or a community chef or an artist or furniture recycler and I don't work for North Treet Garage or in the Recycling centre or for the self storage company or body works gym or the Equestrian Shop or Pells Pool or the pine dippers but I'd do call on some of their services quite often and think they are a vital part of my community.
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 5:29pm lewes wrote:
As I stated before, career is not up for discussion only beliefs regarding the phoenix site. Don't see how it is relevant. At the end of the day it's going to be an excellent development that we can all benefit from. I hope the decision will be made sooner rather than later but I hear that the planning committee will be in November so not long to go now!
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 5:37pm lewes wrote:
Luckily most of those businesses will be rehoused by santon and ldc and I know that the soap factory and wenban have already had their premises developed over at malling brooks so we shall be able to continue to use most of them depending on whether they decide to relocate in lewes.
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 6:53pm Red wrote:
What I hear is that the provision for relocation is both temporary and very expensive.
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 7:11pm lewes wrote:
All leases are temporary still they have had it good down there for a long time. No one can complain really but obviously they would prefer the cheap rates to continue. Yes rates in central lewes will be expensive that's why most businesses tend to locate themselves outside of town centres unless they can afford it.
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 7:13pm Convenient wrote:
@Red .. as I mentioned in an earlier post there are very affordable options on some local agents sires , don't fall into the trap of assuming everyone us being held to ransom ... successful businesses will find premises and unsuccessful ones will be forced to address their profitability issues ....that's called business !
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On 5 Oct 2015 at 7:21pm station street wrote:
There is also a shop in station street up for rent which has become vacant as the red cross are moving out.
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On 6 Oct 2015 at 12:46am Red wrote:
The bottom line seems to be that a developer wants to build houses on land that currently houses buisnesses. Wouldn't it be better to build houses on land that doesn't destroy local industry such as the Malling land. Yes I believe in this case greenfield is better than brownfield.


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