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Party politics.

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On 20 Jun 2016 at 8:05pm Englishman wrote:
With reference to the forthcoming referendum, most large political parties, left or right, seem to favour In. But in fact a referendum means that you, the individual, can vote as you see fit regardless of your political affiliations, if any.
In my younger days all politicians from MP to Prime Minister appeared to be older men to be respected as pillars of authourity. Of course, younger men- and women- have done sterling work in more recent years.
I would just like to say that most of the things that the scaremongers have told you that we would lose by leaving the EU, we had before we went in forty years ago. It is YOUR personal vote. Use it wisely.
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On 20 Jun 2016 at 8:26pm Well done wrote:
Spot on Englishman - I have posted a video of Labour Peter Shore showing us with astounding clarity how badly we have been lied to and subjected to a campaign of brutal fear and lies for over 40 years.
Ask yourself why are they trying to brainwash us into believing we are quite unfitted to exercise the same basic rights of democracy and self-determination enjoyed by practically every other country in the world.

Watch the video »
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On 20 Jun 2016 at 10:10pm Winston wrote:
It's time for Europe to draw together not retreat. If Remain does win the day then my hope is that the EU will have been shocked enough out of its complacency to reform. We can always have another referendum if Brussels simply reverts to type, but outside on our we will be impotent. I know this will be laughed out of court by confirmed Leavers, but it's what I think
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On 20 Jun 2016 at 10:42pm Tony H wrote:
Thought Corbyn came over well this evening - a Remainer with reservations, at last a politician willing to give nuanced replies. Will carry out rail nationalisation despite the EU, and likewise oppose TIPP, but realises it's a game that has to be played on the big stage and not on some forgotten island off the north-west coast of Europe.
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On 20 Jun 2016 at 11:13pm Tammy W wrote:
All divorces are less amicable than you think they're going to be
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On 20 Jun 2016 at 11:20pm Border Control wrote:
Assume that we are not actually already in the EU. Would you vote to join on Thursday, as a new member ? We are not Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia or Turkey. All parties actually agree we are the 5th largest economy in the world, where do they rate ?
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 8:16am Jonny wrote:
We were also the 5th largest economy at the time we joined the eu.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 8:25am Rotten wrote:
Out and the French will piss all over us
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 8:54am Zebedee wrote:
@ 'Englishman'

So you remember when we went into the EU do you? It was the common market/EEC and it was the seventies; a time of raging inflation, IRA terrorism, three day working week, power cuts and strikes. Environmental controls were so poor Britain was known as the 'dirty man of Europe'.

Contrast that with now. Business and economy is radically improved. Workers rights have improved and the environment has also come on in leaps and bounds. Due to the EU we have clean air, clean beaches and cleaner rivers. And we farm without destroying the wildlife. We've reduced landfill and we recycle. We also do our bit to combat climate change (albeit very begrudgingly).

Contrary to your assertion, we had very little of what is good now in the seventies. And we owe a lot of our good fortune to the EU.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 9:39am . wrote:
Zebedee wrote: So you remember when we went into the EU do you? It was the common market/EEC and it was the seventies; a time of raging inflation, IRA terrorism, three day working week, power cuts and strikes. Environmental controls were so poor Britain was known as the 'dirty man of Europe'.
That came after we joined in 1972 - you really are thick aren't you?
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 9:43am . wrote:
And it was the 'sick man of europe' you moron which we were called in 1978-9 long after we joined.
One can tell you are badly educated troll full of lies.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 10:34am Zebedee wrote:
You really are an unlikeable little twerp.

Look up 'dirty man of Europe' (it was an established phrase and one I'm surprised you can't remember) and research the various dates in the 70s yourself.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 10:55am Clifford wrote:
Zebedee - it's incredible that you have the nerve to call someone a 'twerp' when your posts are such a mish-mash of non sequiturs and confusions of cause and effect. You could try looking up the meaning of 'Post hoc, ergo propter hoc'.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 11:29am Zebedee wrote:
Clifford? This guy has called me thick twice and a moron four times and you criticize me because I eventually call him a little twerp? Seeing as you are so versed in Latin I'll give you a phrase that's applicable to both of you: Ad hominen attack.

Please show me where have I made an argument with a conclusion that does not follow from its premises? Where have I confused cause? And where have I said that one thing was the result of another just because it happened after it?

Before you do please note that it was 'Englishman' who said 'most of the things that the scaremongers have told you that we would lose by leaving the EU, we had before we went in forty years ago.' I was pointing out what we had when we joined the EU.

Then I pointed out the good things we have due to membership pf the EU: "clean air, clean beaches and cleaner rivers. And we farm without destroying the wildlife. We've reduced landfill and we recycle. We also do our bit to combat climate change (albeit very begrudgingly)."

And it's all true. Look it up.

And if you are going to criticize please reply directly to the points I have made such that I am able to respond. Otherwise you fall into the same bracket as the anonymous coward above who doesn't even have the courage to spout his bile from a single user name.
 
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 12:28pm Clifford wrote:
Zebedee, I learnt some time ago it was a waste of time getting involved in detailed arguments with PN, a moving target who cannot keep to the point.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 12:49pm Zebedee wrote:
But I am not PN and I always tackle points head on.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 2:48pm Clifford wrote:
My apologies Zebedee, but your long rambling posts, crammed with questionable 'facts' are very much like PN's, you must agree.
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On 21 Jun 2016 at 2:56pm Zebedee wrote:
Nope. They are clear, often bullet pointed, mostly grammatically correct and usually factual and qualified. Not at all like Paul's.


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