On 28 Aug 2011 at 6:23pm Cycleman wrote:
I have had 2 very near serious accidents in the past month while cycling through Lewes in the past month when drivers just haven't been looking out for bikes and not seen me. A van came within inches of me yesterday outside Shelleys on my way to the bottleneck. He had been parked on the right hand side of the road was going towards town, saw no cars and just veered right alongside me. I just managed to brake to stop him knocking me off. I caught him at the lights and had a go at him (apologies to any innocent bystanders as my langugage was not something to be proud of). He shrugged his shoulders and i'm sure that he wasn't remotely aware how dangerous it had been as he didn't see me. Would a national publicity campaign getting drivers to pay particular attention to bikes help or does anyone have any other ideas?
On 28 Aug 2011 at 9:23pm Peter Van Byron wrote:
When I read a letter from my divorce lawyer last week outlining Tatiana's latest demands I too had a near death experience I can tell you. Message to self, stay single Peter. Best, PvB
On 29 Aug 2011 at 6:57am Bazooka Joe wrote:
Too right pedestrian.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 9:49am Biker Boy wrote:
Drama queen indeed. A 'near death experience' is when you wake up in the back of an ambulance (and I have done). Not 'a van came within inches of me'. Get real, fag!
On 29 Aug 2011 at 10:21am Southover Queen wrote:
You see, this is my problem with this forum. Cycleman makes a very valid point: he was nearly killed by an inconsiderate driver and invites comment.
Instead what he gets is a rude dismissal: because a small number of other people who also ride bicycles sometimes ride on the pavement, the fact that he escaped death is totally ignored. Is he saying that he rode (or has ever ridden) on the pavement? How many pedestrians are killed or seriously injured by cyclists riding illegally in the whole of the UK? One or two, to my knowledge, in the last year. How many cyclists are killed or seriously injured by other road users? Nearly 3000.
I am NOT suggesting that cyclists riding on the pavement causing deaths or injuries is not something entirely worthy of discussion. However that wasn't what the OP was about, was it? Instead of a debate about the poor provision for cyclists on our local roads or the dangerous habits of other road users we get nowhere.
I dare say plenty of the regulars will say "if you don't like it here bog off". I probably will, just like many many others who have been disappointed that a forum which should allow us to talk about issues which affect us here in Lewes (and have a laugh maybe as well) makes us about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 11:07am puzzled wrote:
God southover queen you are such a bore. I suggest you get on your bike.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 11:24am Southover Queen wrote:
Well, if may say so, puzzled, the feeling's mutual.
Are you going to follow me round this board and post pointless insults each time? If so you're proving my point very nicely.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 11:38am shaymus wrote:
Yes S.Q. This forum is no way representative of the Lewes people. During my annual visit this year I made an enquiry to (I think) the landlady of the JHT. I asked could I purchase some thing from her that they didn't have in the brewer's shop. Despite being in the middle of her break she went upstairs and returned with the item I had enquired about and an extra something as well. She charged me nothing and said take it with her good will.
What a pity about some of these people on here. My regards to you.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 2:57pm puzzled wrote:
What the heck was all that about.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 2:58pm puzzled wrote:
What the heck was all that about.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 2:58pm puzzled wrote:
What the heck was all that about.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 2:58pm puzzled wrote:
What the heck was all that about.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 4:26pm Biker Boy wrote:
No no no southover queen the problem with this forum is people like you don't read the original post then go on to post never ending, mind numbing drivel. He wasn't 'nearly killed', a van came quite close to the poor soul.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 6:42pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
Perhaps "near death" could be a little over exaggerated. Perhaps Southover could be a misspelling of Drama, not sure! Could the use of such industrial language to a white van man have been more detrimental to Cycleman's health perhaps? It would appear equally so, as neither incident ended in a "near death experience". Near accidents happen all the time, interpreting them as a "near death experience" would perhaps appear to have "ambulance chaser written all over it.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 6:49pm cycleman wrote:
When I posted my original message on here I knew that there would be the usual pathetic comments from people (or a person) who just gets some kind of kick off making stupid statements and 'pointless insults' and ignoring any real points or in any positive way contributing to debate. You may find my subject title over dramatic but i really could easily have been killed and was very shaken by it. Thank you for trying to extend the debate southover queen.
We must not let the idiots (or even just one idiot) stop us from posting.
Do people think a concerted advertising campaign might help? It really is a problem. I don't think the van driver who i am sure did not see me would have been happy to have been responsible for my death or serious injury and i (and my family) would certainly not have been happy.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 6:52pm Clifford wrote:
What really amuses me are the adult cyclists who not only ride on the pavement but also wear helmets while doing it. If you're old enough to ride a bike you're old enough to ride on the road.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 6:52pm Southover Queen wrote:
That's not what he said, though, is it Biker Boy? He entitled his thread "near death experience" and described quite clearly how a van nearly knocked him off his bike. Your interpretation of what he said may be different, and appears to be informed by your wish to belittle him.
Most of you here seem not to be interested in different points of view. You come here with your own set of very fixed prejudices and you're only interested in reinforcing them. Anyone else who might have the temerity to challenge them is just flamed until they go away.
Lewes is full of intelligent, interesting people. It's sad that this is quite clearly not the place to find them.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 8:49pm Yawn.... wrote:
This forum is full of ars0les... not true, in reality only one or two idiots who continually post negative sniping small-minded comments under a large number of user names. Puzzled is just one moniker for the same idiot who posts frequent bile.
I just wish he would p1ss off. He makes this place smell bad.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 10:38pm the old mayor wrote:
To have had one near death experience is bad to have had two is ruddy careless !!
On 29 Aug 2011 at 10:47pm jrsussex wrote:
Cycleman - There has been a national publicity campaign concerning the dangers of riding a bike on the road, aimed at both cyclists and drivers, for as many years as I can remember. Yes drivers should be more aware of cyclists but cyclists must accept a level of responsibility as well. I look on in horror when I see cyclists riding up the inside of HGV's, especially when they are at traffic lights or junctions. Generally speaking the larger the vehicle, the larger the blind spot, something for all cyclists to bear in mind.
On 29 Aug 2011 at 11:24pm Van White Man wrote:
Appologies cycleman, next time I'll make sure it's a 'death experience'. Give you something to really whinge about.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:37am cycleman wrote:
You are right jrsussex but on this particular occasion i assure you it was a case of the van (parked on the right hand side of the road) probably using just his wing mirror, not seeing me and veering very fast right into my path. I saw many signs saying 'think bike' in cornwall recently and i think it does help. They meant motorbikes of course. while i'm reluctant to see lots of unneccessary signs everywhere around town, might that help drivers to be more aware of cyclists and help to save the lives of cyclists?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 8:18am Shardlake wrote:
Can someone explain why cyclists treat red traffic lights as 'give way' signs please?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 8:56am 'ere be monsters wrote:
SQ, you say "Most of you here seem not to be interested in different points of view. You come here with your own set of very fixed prejudices and you're only interested in reinforcing them. Anyone else who might have the temerity to challenge them is just flamed until they go away." It would appear exactly how you are behaving.
Then "Lewes is full of intelligent, interesting people. It's sad that this is quite clearly not the place to find them." Well you're on here!
On 30 Aug 2011 at 10:23am Southover Queen wrote:
So how should I behave then, ebm? Established members of this forum routinely attack newcomers - that's certainly how I've felt. It would appear that new blood is absolutely not welcome. Defending yourself leads to accusations that you're the one behaving badly, and that, pretty obviously, leads to a vicious cycle of hostile postings.
I don't, as it happens, have a "set of fixed prejudices" and neither am I flaming anyone. I am NOT the aggressor, and if you truly believe that I am then frankly I rest my case.
I'm here because it would be very nice indeed to have a friendly online meeting place where you can exchange local information, share recommendations about local businesses and trades people and debate local issues. My first visit, back in February, drove me away for months. I'm back because I'm sort of hoping that if I make a stand some of the more intelligent posters might be prepared to join me in standing up to the forum bullies. If that fails, as it seems doomed to, I'll be off and I won't be back - just like many many others, I'd guess.
Unlike most of the posters here I've added an email address. Do get in touch if you feel similarly frustrated; don't bother if you just want to abuse me further.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 10:28am Southover Queen wrote:
Oops sorry: I thought that adding my email address to the posting form would be reflected in the message, and it turns out it isn't.
It is "firstname.lastname@example.org"
On 30 Aug 2011 at 10:34am Kettle wrote:
I just wanted to say that I really agree with you SQ. Spot on - especially the bit about defending yourself leads to accusations that you're the one behaving badly.
I've all but given up with the forum and this thread is a real example of why.
My husband rides a bike to work in London and it terrifies me. He is a sensible and careful cyclist but is routinely carved up and abused by motorists. Why can't drivers see that the more people cycle the better - for them as well as the planet. Would they really want all of the people who currently cycle to use a car instead?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 11:17am 'ere be monsters wrote:
Just put your point of view SQ. Just because you feel some people do not agree with what you say doesn't make them unintelligent or bullies. Defending yourself by suggesting such things is perhaps not conducive to friendly exchanges. Your prejudices towards cyclists and white van man seem to be pretty fixed. You were not witness to the original "near death experience" yet defended the accusation leveled at the van driver quite fervently.
Perhaps if the original post hadn't been so overstated more sympathy would have been forthcoming, who knows.
Please don't stop posting.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:25pm Mr Forks wrote:
As a pedestrian I'm routinely cut up and nearly run over by cyclists going the wrong way down one way streets, ignoring red lights and reiding on the pavement. I find that whatever goes around comes around. Cyclists beheave, be less obnoxious and perhaps people will treat you the same?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:27pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
Where was I defending those comments Kettle?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:30pm Southover Queen wrote:
"Just because you feel some people do not agree with what you say doesn't make them unintelligent or bullies."
No, indeed it doesn't, ebm, and I wouldn't be in the least bit interested in a forum where everyone agreed with one another. However much of the debate is definitely bullying in tone - I've been accused of "droning on", posting "drivel" etc etc, and told to go away just in the last few hours.
As to intelligence, someone posts a serious question or raises a sincere concern: what they're likely to get in return is a "witty remark", which is only funny to the poster and comes across as crass to the rest of us, or a sharp put-down along the lines of "go back where you came from". The debate here is very unintelligent, often; perhaps the posters themselves aren't (I'm sure they're not, in fact) but it's hard to tell.
"Your prejudices towards cyclists and white van man seem to be pretty fixed." How on earth do you draw that conclusion? I quoted some government statistics on the accidents involving cyclists. I made no reference whatsoever to "white van man" - that is entirely your gloss. I had the temerity to accept at face value Cycleman's story of nearly being knocked off his bike, and if you don't think that being knocked off your bike by a motor vehicle is potentially very dangerous then I'd guess you're not a cyclist yourself.
"You were not witness to the original "near death experience" yet defended the accusation leveled at the van driver quite fervently."
Where is this fervent defence of the accusation? I said that the driver appeared to be inconsiderate. I accept completely that we only have one side of the story, but are you honestly saying that no driver has ever failed to see a bicycle and put them in danger because of it? And is it not a subject worthy of debate, rather than a reason for several people launching ad hominem attacks?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:38pm cycleman wrote:
Keep going southover queen.
My original post was not over stated. I have stated that the title might have been over dramatic but i really could easily have been killed and for me that was a 'near death experience'. Everything I have written has been factual. I'm not after sympathy, just some debate about how the risk to cyclists can be minimised when they just cycling along. People posting their views on cyclists and the way some people cycle is not contributing in my opinion.
Neither is 'man white van' (see above) who posted 'Appologies cycleman, next time I'll make sure it's a 'death experience'. Give you something to really whinge about.'
There is no reason I should not report that to the police as threatening behaviour. I can't believe that it is still there and this person is still able to post on this site. I shall copy this post to another entitled 'threatening behaviour' so that anyone who wants to comment on that can do so there and hopefully this thread can remain a debate on how to make cycling safer
Incidentally, the reason why some cyclists ignore traffic rules is that you have to develop an attitude that only you can look after yourself and that the traffic laws on a bike on the whole will not protect you. That may not justify some cyclists behaviour but for many is the reason.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:50pm Mr Forks wrote:
"the reason why some cyclists ignore traffic rules is that you have to develop an attitude that only you can look after yourself " An interesting idea, perhaps the white van man had a similar idea. If it's good for one person, then surely good for everyone?
On 30 Aug 2011 at 12:59pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
I've made no accusations of droning on etc etc. It is you that labelled everyone on this forum as not interesting or intelligent.
"he was nearly killed by an inconsiderate driver" (no mention of appeared) would appear to be a reference to the driver of the white van, perhaps a conclusion was jumped to. Perhaps fervent was how your post sounded, perhaps wrongly. Please point out where I said or even suggested that "no driver has ever failed to see a bicycle and put them in danger because of it? And is it not a subject worthy of debate, rather than a reason for several people launching ad hominem attacks? " Why put words into my postings?
I have posted many times on this forum commenting how posters use insult, abuse and name calling to try and win an argument and stated how wrong it is.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 1:28pm Southover Queen wrote:
EBM, I'm not accusing you of doing any of those things. However all of that's come my way in the last 24 hours. I think it's quite clear from my post that you weren't one of them. I am describing how unpleasant a new user's experience of this forum can be, something which you appear to agree with.
"He was nearly killed by an inconsiderate driver" is what Cycleman described! Why is it a problem to accept that? Unless you were a witness you can't possibly say whether Cycleman is exaggerating. Additionally, he wasn't inviting sympathy, he wanted to provoke a debate about the dangers of cycling using his experience as an example. Instead he was the butt of several unpleasant ad hominem attacks, just as I described. I did not accuse you of making them and I'm not putting words into your postings! I was merely trying to move the debate away from people questioning Cycleman's account (a fruitless exercise) back to considering the wider picture.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 1:59pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
I'm sorry but you have tried to put words in my posts. Not that it particularly bothers me. You have lumped me in with all the uninteresting and unintelligent posters on here. Not that that bothers me either.
It would appear that some posters do not put enough thought into there posts before placing them on the forum. A little more thought and information could perhaps prevent stupid remarks.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 2:13pm Southover Queen wrote:
"You have lumped me in with all the uninteresting and unintelligent posters on here. "
I haven't. In fact, you appear to have something to say and the means to say it. Many here do not.
"I'm sorry but you have tried to put words in my posts. Not that it particularly bothers me. " If that is the impression I have given I apologise. It was not my intention. As I said, I have been trying to move the debate away from sniping remarks and onto wider territory which might actually deliver an interesting conversation.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 2:26pm puzzled wrote:
I started a post some while back about faces on cctv in regards to the riots. I merely said after watching the footage that a large number of them were black, unfortunately I used the word foreigners which stirred up a load of snide remarks and I apologised. I am not a racist but was just stating that they certainly were not helping racial harmony. You Southover Queen immediately went on about me being a racist and that was so nasty. That is why I have been posting stupid remarks and for that I apologise but it was you that stirred me up Southover Queen and you have done it to E.B.M. as well. Think before you print.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 2:34pm Stan Castle wrote:
Considering how most the of the cyclists in Lewes appear to be a law unto themselves, especially on the High Street where they routinely ignore red lights and jump onto the pavement, I think the least they deserve is a good scare once in a while.
I'd personally ban them from the High Street and other narrow roads where their presence becomes a hindrance to motorists. I've seen them causing tail-backs of 15-20 cars but they are either oblivious to the fact or just don't care.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 2:45pm Southover Queen wrote:
Oh jeez. Puzzled, if you think foreigners and black people are synonymous then I'm sorry but it's a reasonable conclusion to reach. It's not a small mistake: it betrays a vast gulf in your thinking and it should be challenged because it's quite fantastically offensive to a significant number of our compatriots. I agree "racism" isn't a nice accusation and I'm sorry if you were offended, but I was never sure you understood why foreigners do not equal people with dark skins.
On 30 Aug 2011 at 8:15pm Peter Byron wrote:
Southover Queen, Forgive me if wrong, but is this subject about aggresive cyclists and not race? (seems to crop up in everything) In order to burn calories there are far more pleasant ways than getting angry on the roads. Here in Amsterday Cyclists are a part of the structure and I have never seen one dressed in a daft hat, lycra pants nor shouting at a motorist! Looking forward to smog, traffic jams and hot crumpets, coming home fans and foes ha ha. Best Peter