On 16 Aug 2011 at 11:23pm Harold wrote:
Well,I for one think the new houses in western road are shaping up nicely, I did not like them at first but they will look great in a few years.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 2:56am Fairmeadow wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even when it's wrong.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 8:02am DFL wrote:
Little bit "pokey" for my liking, but better than a derelict building. How much are they going for ?
On 17 Aug 2011 at 8:31am Harold wrote:
I think they start at 279k , not bad for Lewes.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 8:38am bastian wrote:
so not afforable to the first time buyer on a Lewes wage then.(Current rate of pay for a local manager is about 18k)
On 17 Aug 2011 at 9:27am withdrawn wrote:
you want to get up to London to work, I earn that in a month - (18k not 279k that would be silly)
On 17 Aug 2011 at 10:15am DFL wrote:
Just had a look at the details on Lewes Estates. Bedrooms are very small, and there's not much of a garden, so as the ad says - "Town Houses". You can get a 3 bed semi up on the Nevill for £300K with bigger rooms and large gardens, good value for money in my humble opinion.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 12:59pm grr wrote:
What irks me about the popular attitude to new buildings in Lewes is that someone can put up the two new houses on East Street, which are ill-proportioned, badly detailed and, overall, stinking ugly, and no-one bats an eyelid because they look vaguely, y'know, sort of historical-ish.
And then (on previous threads, particularly) people whine about Meridian Row because the houses have the awful temerity to look modestly contemporary. John Nash - who knew a thing or two about contemporary design in his time - would be turning in his grave.
I think the houses on Meridian Row are fine: quiet and understated. Perfectly acceptable addition to the townscape.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 1:42pm Mr Forks wrote:
I quite like them, nice contemporary townhouse appearance. A modern appearance is always better than lazy pastiche which most people in this town seem prefer, no taste!
On 17 Aug 2011 at 2:34pm sashimi wrote:
What I really dislike about those houses is that they don't look anything like the poster of them stuck on the end house. The brilliant white pointing makes the brickwork look two tone and the windows which look flat in the picture are to my mind ugly with cheap sticking out aluminium frames. But as someone says, it's all a matter of opinion.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 3:50pm bastian wrote:
withdrawn, we don't all want to commute to London in order to buy a house here.Neither do we want to pay the now extortionate rents to live here on our local wages,it's an impossible situation that is destroying the local community,mum and dad live in lewes but the kids have to live in Newhaven or Seaford so that the rich london workers can live next door to their parents,(and complain about them not being the right sort of person)
On 17 Aug 2011 at 3:56pm Taff wrote:
Well said bastion. However that is why these style of residencies are built. The market knows it will attract the higher paid DFLs and the prices are a snip when compared to L.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 4:06pm giveitarest wrote:
Taff / bastian - you're living in fantasy land. You can't blame everything on DFLs. Bastian said a manager earns 18k. A mortgage on that wouldn't buy a brand new family house in Grimsby, Kilmarnock or Merthyr, let alone anywhere closer. It's a national problem, not a Lewes commuter problem.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 4:13pm Kettle wrote:
Well maybe the commuters deserve the houses more then, as they are prepared to put in the effort of a commute.
We don't own the towns we were born in.
Perhaps the commuters were priced out of the nicer bits of London by rich immigrants from places such as russia and saudi. Would you really want to live in Woolwich or Tottenham? Faced with the choice I know what I'd do.
Feel sorry for people who have to commute. I've done it myself and it's horrible.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 4:17pm withdrawn wrote:
Its destroying a type of community that you would like to see and is creating another type of community. There is a point of view that says this community is a little more liberal, tolerant and less 'little englandish' in its outlook than the one it is replacing and that is no bad thing. Many rural areas that don't get an economic kickback from places like London are withering away. As has been said a million times it a pointless to resist Geography as it has always influenced the type of place Lewes is. Its why the railway serves Lewes, its why many local business were started. I'm sure many people living in Polegate don't like the facts that all the East Sussex council jobs are based in Lewes not there, so its not all one way.
I do accept it is a difficult situation, and a bit more of an affordable social housing policy would help, but economic migration is a reality that will not go away. You arent able to build walls around your town to keep nasty people with spare cash who want to live in your town. If £18k pa only buys you a house in Newhaven, then so be it, its only a 15 min bus ride to see mum and dad - you never know if you look hard enough there may be a community there too
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:09pm bastian wrote:
as I expected you do not understand community,as has been shown by what has happened in tottenham.Community is not small town thinking and if that is what you mean by little englandish then you really don't understand why it is upsetting to see your own kids driven out to live somewhere crap instead of being part of the community that they were born in.why should you be sble to cherry pick,even the ex-council housed here rather than inprove the areas you left behind,I do not pity commuters,it was a choice to leave London and live here,it was not our choice to find our kids living in Denton.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:12pm LTlR wrote:
The DFLs also buy up the more affordable homes on the market in Lewes and rent them for over a Thousand Pounds a month, want chance do the local young people have.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:13pm bastian wrote:
it suprises me how few commuters think that 18k is an unexceptable wage,let alone crowing about how they make that in a month,when property has been pushed up by people who opt to commute,we are suddenly dispised for valuing something other than money...like our family and a slow pace of life,I don't lack drive,I just don't want to be forced into your rat race.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:27pm withdrawn wrote:
I dont consider it to be a rat race, I put the same level of effort into my job in london than one I would do in Lewes. Add an hour on each way for a commute, means I lose probably 7 hours a week that I could be at home with my kids. Do I regret those hours - yes. On balance have we reached the decision that for the additional hours allow us to live the life we want. Yes
I have a great deal of respect for people who put emphasis on the things you describe. I also wasn't crowing (although I must admit it probably sounded like it). I was saying that all this included local house prises come into making this decision.
You can't keep your town and the economy that drives it in aspic, you can't have a community that stands still, it adapts to the influences around it. Attempts to do so in my opinion a characteristic of a little englander - which has always been a by product of our over zealous imperial past.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:32pm Kettle wrote:
Err - people should be able to cherry pick if they are the ones putting in the effort. Why should you sit on your bum and get everything handed to you.
Stay and improve areas - That's easy for you to say because you don't have to do it. I was brought up in Brighton and the only way I could return there and buy a house was by commuting - which I did. I could have stayed in the area where I was renting in london and keep renting - but why should I?
I live in Lewes now and deserve to just as much as anyone. I don't believe that anyone is born with more rights than anyone else. Do you?
As for community - I wouldn't want to live in a static one.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 5:42pm holly wrote:
I too am a little confused by all this Bastian. You dont have to have been born in London to have taken the decision to commute there as you suggest. I was born in Seaford, went to university, lived in a grotty part of manchester that beats Denton into a cocked hat. At the age of 38 having worked very hard I then was able to buy a house and move to Lewes and live in the same town that my Grandmother still lives. I now add to the community that I find all the more refreshing for having a mixture of people with different backgrounds in it. I no longer commute, but my husband does. We have a pretty slow pace of life and spend a lot of time with our family.
Where do you expect people from Denton to go if they can afford to move on, or by your logic should they too be forced to stay locally.
What harm seriously does it do your children to live in Denton? why should they be shuffled into housing stock automatically?
I'm not intending to come over all Tory and saying it should be a cut throat society that only rewards those willing to work every hour but I also can't relate to a word that tries to organise itself into little museums that try to repell any outside influence.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 6:32pm bastian wrote:
it's simple,house price rises are the result of pay rises that are out of kilter with the local economy.I am not bashing anyone,I am purely pointing out that our kids have been crowbarred into a pace of life that I do not consider to be natural in order to keep up with those people who chose to work 50 miles away.Yet commuters would like to spend 7 more hours with their kids,why are local rates of pay so crap that you have to travel to earn enough to live here..it's an aura borus that leaves HARDWORKING locals out of pocket.If people invest in their communities there are fewer problems to escape.Why should my kids be shuffled into housing stock automatically? what a question.If your advance in humanity from univerity just turned you into a cog in the capitalist machine then there is no such thing as community anymore,it's each man for himself.Just try this on for size,Is it wrong to care about people less fortunate than ourselves?as for coming over all tory then yes,you do,or new labour which is not labour at all.No one wants a museum,you mix up culture with needs.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 7:04pm bastian wrote:
also,how did the area of Manchester get grotty?as you described it,and if you are as liberal and open minded,and tolerent as educated people are suposed to be in order not to be small town,then you will answer that very carefully.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 7:10pm Kettle wrote:
I care about the less fortunate as much as the next guy. I don't understand the connection. Moving to Lewes wasn't an attempt to gut the local community. It's an attempt to get a house I can afford in an area I want to live in. I work hard too. If you ever move will you refuse to sell to an outsider?
Everyone's kids are in the same boat - you made your choice - you did what you thought was best for your family, i.e. stay put. I'm making my choice.
Areas change. My mum lived in Kensington in her youth. She had to share a sink with three other families, mind you, but it was still Kensington. Not much chance of me living there.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 7:24pm holly wrote:
Because the ecomony that once supported it has moved on. Materials can be produced cheaper elsewhere. In time this may change and another cycle may lead to its regeneration as it is, it is grotty and I lived there and quite enjoyed it. It allowed me to see the world from more than one perspective.
I'm not sure where you expect that person from Denton who doesn't want to live there anymore. Do you condemn everyone to live where they are born. Any migration at all will have an impact on the destination and the departed location.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 7:40pm withdrawn wrote:
So what's the answer, the state buys up all the houses from everyone for a pound then rent it back to locals for a nominal rate. Or local businesses are forced for pay London salaries, or everyone is forbidden to sell on unless the buyer has a DNA test proving their east Sussex roots. Improved housing stock for locals is fine but hardly going to reverse the situation you describe. So let's have some answers that save the souls of your children and brings them back from the wilds of denton.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 9:25pm queequeg wrote:
The price of a new house is roughly 1/3 land, 1/3 build cost, 1/3 profit. The council could compulsorily purchase land at non development prices and build without profit - creating housing stock at little more than 1/3 the current market price. This was done previously, much of Lewes was built in this way, providing work and housing the local community.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 9:53pm giveitarest wrote:
queequeg: if a developer beats 10% per unit profit, they're doing astonishingly well. Land prices are much higher than that.
On 17 Aug 2011 at 9:58pm giveitarest wrote:
bastian - "it's simple,house price rises are the result of pay rises that are out of kilter with the local economy". This is utter gibberish. House prices are a function of supply vs demand and the availability of finance. If what you said was correct, then average house price as a function of average salary would have remained constant for decades. It very much has not. No-one wants to commute. If house prices really were related to earnings, then everyone employed in London would be able to afford to live there.
There's a myth that the trains are full of bankers in a morning. There are some, but there are also firemen, teachers and very many public sector workers who commute because they have little choice.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 12:24am Lord Sugar wrote:
giveitarest....you talk complete rubbish...and therefore your FIRED! Bastian your hired!
On 18 Aug 2011 at 5:50am Deelite wrote:
Isn't Landport still affordable, or has that too become an exclusive DFL neighbourhood?
On 18 Aug 2011 at 8:14am bastian wrote:
average house price in Landport is still 199-230k...how is that affordable on a local wage?It just galls me hearing us all being duscussed as somehow a bit backwards when what annoys us all is the being priced out of the town...I am not alone in my thinking,even if we are fortunate to have a job and a house whether owned or rented we are forced to pay above the odds,taking on crushing debt...and there is a relationship between wages and house prices through supply and demand driven by the top earners.This has all happened before in Lewes about 15 years ago and alot of people were very angry then but now it's gone mad.The answer to the original question Harold posed"275k seems quite good for Lewes"is no! it's not good for Lewes but it's cheap for a couple earning 75k pa...and if they can't afford it they can leave their family to go somewhere cheaper...thanks!it's all about what you care about...money or family..but then this is probabley one of the old fashioned ideas you people consider smalltown.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 8:34am kevsy wrote:
My suggestion would be to stop all inherited wealth as discussed on radio 4 last night. It would make people think twice about buying bigger and better housing for more and more, knowing it would all go back to the State when they die. This would have a deflationary effect on all house prices. It would also encourage more effort to go into preparing your offspring to make the kind of life choices being described by Bastian ‚?? but after that there would be no windfalls from above to help them along the way. It would hit the rich more than the poor ‚?? no harm there.
For those who believe this is a little left leaning, think of it this way. Inheritance is a major impediment to the free market, it disturbs the principle of demand and supply between the individual and the commodity, with all sorts of bits of intervention like distribution of wealth in wills. Better still live within your means while you are alive, any wealth you generate as a human being can be redistributed for the greater good of society or Bastian‚??s community when you die.
I admit in the short term it doesn‚??t do much for Bastian‚??s ailing Denton castaways, removing any hope that they can climb out of that hell hole when he pops his clogs, but hopefully by then the market would have corrected itself and prices would have levelled out.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 8:35am DFL wrote:
Bastian, I don't work, I'm retired, and I don't have a pension of £75K !! and for the record I think the local people are great, and definitely NOT lazy etc., and I know they work hard because I've employed some of them over the past year.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 9:05am Mercian wrote:
bastian - could you point to a town in the South of England (London included) where houses are affordable to people on local wages (or average wages for that matter)? High house prices are a national problem and are not confined to Lewes. That's why first-time buyer numbers are a fraction of what they were in the 90s. This is not a Lewes or DFL problem, I'm afraid.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 10:42am giveitarest wrote:
Kevsy - with you 100% on inheritance. It's always struck me as more than a little hypocritical that right-wingers bang on about the responsibilities of the individual and everybody standing on their own two feet, and then want to abolish inheritance tax.
In a true meritocracy, every person born should start with nothing and make their own way.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 10:58am Zebedee wrote:
Strong family relationships are responsible for much of the social cohesion, stability and robust mental health necessary for the continuation of a successful society. As family structure and relationships start to break down society as a whole becomes will more fractured, with individuals becoming isolated which leads to poor mental health, lack of commonality and less co-operation between it's members.
Obviously diffusion of the population also has it's benefits but at the moment the balance is completely wrong. Families are being torn apart by rising house prices and villages destroyed by second home owners. Much of this is due to ever-increasing wealth differentials, concentration of centres employment, moves away from 'locality' and ease of travel.
This should be addressed if we are not to damage our society and create ghettoes of the have and have-nots.... but then a Boden-Lewes probably suits many people in the town.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 11:09am kevsy wrote:
strong family links do not need to be geographically concentrated, it has to work over distances, as people travel more they meet people that come from other towns, or even countries and this leads to them living in other places. So it is a mistake to link strength of family with mobility. It just takes a little more effort.
Just because I don't want to live in the town I was born in, doesnt mean my sense of family or place is any less keen than the next person.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 11:56am Zebedee wrote:
The amount you physically meet your family will be almost certainly reduced the further you live from them, the amount your offspring meet their cousins will be reduced and their sense of belong to this larger family unit also reduced. This will inevitably reduce the cohesion of the larger (extended) family unit in fact, in my experience very often this large family unit can all but cease to exist surprisingly quickly.
Some will always make the choice to live away, as you have done kevsy. At the moment much larger numbers are being forced to move away from their familes than ever before.
As always it's all about percentages and the effect shifting percentage numbers has on the larger whole (in this case our society). Sometimes even small percentage shifts in some factors can have a surprisingly large effect on the whole.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 12:17pm giveitarest wrote:
Z - my grandparents lived 50 miles from their parents 100 years ago; my parents lived over 100 miles from their parents and I live over 100 miles from my parents. (We get about a bit!) I don't feel particularly socially disadvantaged or dysfunctional.
It's been happening since the Industrial Revolution; I'm not completely convinced that family geography has much to do with social cohesion.
On 18 Aug 2011 at 12:20pm kevsy wrote:
so you think it isn't healthy and positive for people to marry people that aren't from the town you were born in. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, just trying to understand the consequences of the debate we are having.
I for one think it is perfectly natural for a child to want to move away from their parents, the fleeing the nest is an important part of life, it doesnt make the strength to family any less strong. You don;t have to be round for Sunday lunch and bring your washing round every week for your family to be strong and supportive.