On 5 Aug 2023 at 10:32am Tom Pain wrote:
...Of Specialists Finds No End in Sight to 30-year Cooling Trend in Northern Hemisphere. Report of "scientific consensus" in the NY Times January 5 1978. Why is there no mention of this or trace of it on graphs in recent lurid headlines? Compare the graphs in both and draw your own conclusions. Try to ignore my dreadful punctuation habits and other fatuous speculations of lizard overlords and suchlike.
On 5 Aug 2023 at 7:33pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Oh wow, an article from the 1970s again from Tom Pain, disproving everything we are told......thanks Tom, you have enlightened us, we are now truly "woke" to whats really going on! LOL The conspiracy of those nasty green tyrants, making our beautiful fossil fuels redundant and pressuring those poor oil and gas tycoons into a fake agenda just so they can green do-gooders can sell solar panels and cancer inducing wind power generators. Why on earth do we put up with advancing technology that is infinite and renewable, when instead we can focus purely on capturing resources we dig up that is finite and that can be instead controlled and manipulated by a small handful of trust-worthy billionaires. As long as they profit, we can breathe easily....
On 5 Aug 2023 at 9:02pm Tom Pain wrote:
An interesting rant, but what has it to do with the the fact that temperatures dropped in the fifties, sixties and seventies? Nothing whatsoever, but it does distract from the report which makes me wonder why the truth is such an anathema to you.
On 5 Aug 2023 at 10:18pm Pedant wrote:
The classic cherry pick. This one did the rounds on social media a while ago. A text book example of drawing conclusions from limited data. When the data set for this same study was widened the proof of overall warming was plainly evident.
On 6 Aug 2023 at 7:42pm Tom Pain wrote:
How was the data set widened...with a crowbar?
On 7 Aug 2023 at 11:32am Nevillman wrote:
Data sets are usually widened by examining more data so giving a more accurate analysis Tom. A crowbar would not be effective Tom.
I looked into your cooling trend data Tom as I am very keen to find evidence that we are not seriously affecting the climate. I'm afraid that it is as weak as all the analysis that climate change deniers have come up with and so depressed me further. If that really is the best they can come up with I'm afraid I am lead to the conclusion that we have doomed future generations.
On 7 Aug 2023 at 8:20pm Tom Pain wrote:
Then you've been looking in the wrong place. Where do they get the "extra data" from? And don't call me a climate change denier,add a man made if you want to be a trifle less deceptive. Any fool knows the climate is always changing. Modern scientific data only began at the end of the little ice age in the late 19th C, good thing it's getting warmer. As You're so au fait with data collection perhaps you can tell me why ground temperature readings have been reported recently in the media instead of air temperatures. I just can't think why they need to use such underhand methods to depress us.
On 7 Aug 2023 at 9:10pm Green Sleeves wrote:
It was never scientific consensus ("global cooling"), it was conjecture formed by some scientists of the time - and the reason why it seems almost conveniently forgotten about, is because it was barely ever considered in the first place beyond a handful of papers. The same people trot it out every year, usually right-wing ghouls connected to fossil fuel money and shock-jocks in America desperate for relevance by being controversial/"edgy" with their non-mainstream world views.
97% of climate scientists could be wrong I guess....but the evidence seems far more compelling, even if you were to play devils advocate. The whole denial/conspiracy theories on climate change always are deeply flawed, thoroughly de-bunked or misinterpreted, sometimes deliberately, sometimes just through ignorance. Tom Pain is like that 12th juror who just doesn't want to go home.
On 8 Aug 2023 at 9:00am Nevillman wrote:
The "extra data" will come from analysis of climate recordings since 1978 Tom. Incidentally why did you put "extra data" in quotation marks. Who are you quoting? Thank you for clarifying your position on climate change denial. You have always refused to do so when I have directly asked you before.
I accept your point about no reliable recordings of temperature since the little ice age but I'm afraid I find the statistics on climate change and Arctic ice in the last 50 years compelling enough. We also have a lot more scientific analysis of the effects of co2 on the atmosphere. Looking into your global cooling information I saw that there were some scientists who think the extra co2 in the atmosphere may lead to global cooling in the long term. You may take this to mean that the scientists don't know what they are talking about but it is reasonable that scientists will have different views on the conclusions from the data. They still think we should avoid putting co2 into the atmosphere.
I had no idea that the "media" were using ground temperature readings instead of air temperature readings and cannot find anything out about this. You are saying that this is so they can depress us further presumably because it makes climate change look worse. As long as they consistently use one or the other for comparison purposes I don't see the problem with this. Can you explain it please Tom and explain why it is "underhand".
On 8 Aug 2023 at 3:03pm Tom Pain wrote:
Recent bizarre temperatures in the mediterranean were ground readings which are obviously higher in summer. They must have been taken by spectral far left extreme, papist, fascist, Pol Pot admiring, transubstantiationist, Blairite,alcoholic meat addicted middle-to-upper class,vegan gammons with chipped shoulders and absolutely no consistency whatsoever. Arctic ice has been coming and going for millions of years and will continue to do so, what's your point? And what's the use of data from 78 when considering the preceeding three decades cooling? 97% of scientists are very pissed off about that totally debunked claim about the 97% of scientists and the 1% of clueless people who repeat it ad nauseum. And, the quote was from pedant, which you must have missed in the frenzy.
On 8 Aug 2023 at 6:31pm Nevillman wrote:
I'm sure that the people in the Mediterranean will be relieved to know that they weren't as hot as they thought they were. I can't see any quote from pedant using the term "extra data". It couldn't be you're making stuff up Tom? As for the rest of your post...... well I hope it made you laugh Tom.
On 8 Aug 2023 at 10:42pm Tom Pain wrote:
"the data set was widened" is that another of those things you didn't understand? Come on, natural causation climate denier,surely you're not claiming that shortening a statement whilst retaining it's meaning is making things up?Just for a lark, what's the most potent greenhouse gas?
On 9 Aug 2023 at 8:24am Nevillman wrote:
I fully understand what it means to widen a data set but I don't understand why you are using quotation marks. Who are you quoting? You do appear to be making up quotes. If you are shortening or paraphrasing what someone has said you should not use quotation marks or you will justifiably be accused of making up things.
I fully accept that the climate changes for natural reasons. The last ice age only finished 12,000 years ago. I believe that the climate is currently changing largely due to man made reasons. I accept you don't but have yet to see any good evidence from you to contradict scientists and back up your opinion.
Why don't you tell us what the most potent greenhouse gas is and its relevance to your argument.
On 9 Aug 2023 at 8:56am pedant wrote:
If you want to use data subsets take the global temperature readings from 1940 through to 2020. What's the overall trend?
On 9 Aug 2023 at 10:37am Tom Pain wrote:
Clue me into these figures, who has compiled them, where were they taken, is it raw data or modified? Since we are talking climate, how do the figures compare to 1840 when the little ice age was coming to an end. I sincerely hope that they rise and continue to do so although this summer doesn't make me too optimistic. While we are at it, can you tell me how the medieval warm period occurred without high levels of co2? We haven't any data subsets to manipulate, so must rely on common sense so what do you, yourself think? OK nev, it's water vapour, I quite understand why you had to ask. I saw an article about the Tonga Hunga Haapai underwater volcano eruption last year which released massive amounts of water vapour into the atmosphere.NASA and the ESA commented that it would increase global temperatures for years to come. The BBC mentioned the event in July '23, referencing the NASA report. then eleven days later said that higher temperatures in southern Europe would be impossible without anthropogenic climate change. Slip of the tongue eh? Just forgot a few details? Don't we expect nit picking punctilious veracity from the BBC as well as forum posters?
On 10 Aug 2023 at 8:35am Nevillman wrote:
Water vapour has the effect of exaggerating the effects of co2 in the atmosphere. Analysis of the carbon in the atmosphere shows that it is old co2 we have released rather than new co2 caused by volcanic activity. The mediaeval warming period was most likely caused by increased solar activity, decreased volcanic activity or changes in ocean circulation. The climate has always changed Tom but I'm afraid the science does show to my satisfaction that it is currently being mainly influenced by the human created release of co2.
Quite honestly, even if it was shown that burning fossil fuels wasn't causing global warming, there would still be very good reasons to stop it's use. It causes huge health problems, is very unpleasant to breathe in and it's finite.
On 10 Aug 2023 at 10:07am Tom Pain wrote:
CO2 causes huge problems for deserts. It is plant food and without it life on earth would be extinguished. How odd that you talk about volcanic CO2 when the point at question is volcanic H20 !!!! Oops, the BBC bait and switch gambit !!! What a surprise. Perhaps you could tell me what health problems atmospheric CO2 causes,ha ha. Nice try, a concentration of any of them would be deadly to anything. Just the slippery techniques of natural climate change deniers everywhere. The sun is still in the sky and up to it's tricks. Pull the other one, Col Nevill-Blimp!
On 10 Aug 2023 at 11:22am Nevillman wrote:
Please read and try to understand points made before responding to them. Volcanic h2o exacerbates the effect of volcanic and man made co2 in the atmosphere. Obviously co2 is an integral part of the mix of gases that sustains life on earth. It is the man made release of co2 that has been stored for millions of years which is the issue and is distorting the atmosphere and currently causing global warming. I am most certainly not a natural climate change denier and am fully aware that this country has only become inhabitable again in the past ten thousand years because of natural climate change.
Why don't you examine the science behind the claims of scientists over the effects of man made co2 in the atmosphere and refute that?
I was talking about the health problems caused to millions before the co2 reaches the atmosphere. Please let me know if you wish to dispute this. The health and other problems caused by atmospheric co2, in other words the problems caused by global warming, have yet to be fully discovered.
On 10 Aug 2023 at 2:46pm Tom Pain wrote:
Before the gas reaches the atmosphere ? What? Where was it? I have studied the science and how many pages would you like? Can you tell me where I can find conclusive empirical proof that co2 causes global warming? No, it's an assumption, possible but not proven. I've also seen the "climate gate" emails and wonder why the "science" needs so much fraud to be "conclusive". Note my use of quotation marks- any complaints? Do you believethe sun has stopped warming the earth and has retired as many natural global warming deniers do?
On 10 Aug 2023 at 5:44pm Pedant wrote:
Study a bit more Tom. It is widely known that CO2 is a warming gas. The Royal Society have a simple experiment to prove it using two balloons and a heating element.
On 10 Aug 2023 at 6:53pm Nevillman wrote:
Are you disputing that exhaust emissions are harmful Tom? Please stand behind a bus, inhale the fumes and see what you think then. The evidence for man made co2 causing global warming is more than an assumption Tom. I have seen no evidence to refute it.
Your use of quotation marks seems completely arbitrary. Who are you quoting?
I have no idea why you should think that I might think the sun has stopped heating the earth. I don't know anyone who doesn't think that climate changes so who these "many natural global warming deniers" you refer to are I don't know. If they posted on here I would be happy to discuss it with them.
On 11 Aug 2023 at 8:55pm Tom Pain wrote:
I love that experiment, pedant. My Dad used to entertain me with tricks like that when I was a child. I can't possibly reply to Nev and keep my sanity, though I seem to remember that water vapour is the major exhaust product of internal combustion engines. I'm probably wrong but I don't need a scientist to tell me why my pipe rusts.
On 12 Aug 2023 at 8:10am Nevillman wrote:
"I can't possibly reply to nev and keep my sanity". Might be a bit late to start worrying about that Tom. Do I see a white flag being raised? Good point on the water vapour in internal combustion engines. Sounds like another good reason to get rid of them.
What is the royal society experiment please pedant?
On 12 Aug 2023 at 11:48am pedant wrote:
In short the experiment consists of one balloon filled with air and another with CO2. A small heating element is inserted along with a thermocouple. Both balloons are heated to a set temperature and then allowed to cool. The rate of cooling is recorded over time with the CO2 filled balloon taking longer to cool.
Check it out here »
On 12 Aug 2023 at 12:10pm Green Sleeves wrote:
The guy should go back to obsessing about vaccines and hunter bidens laptop.
On 12 Aug 2023 at 11:16pm Tom Pain wrote:
Now you're talking, Bunter Hiden is a top illignorati operative undercover in the nevill green psychological warfare group thought to be responsible for the disappearance of Mrs Twine and the thermo couple laptop scandal. Give us more of the goss, man.
On 13 Aug 2023 at 10:53am Nevillman wrote:
Sadly the long term effects on the brain of believing in conspiracy theories has not been fully researched.
On 13 Aug 2023 at 11:44am Green Sleeves wrote:
Thats the TP we know and love the best. The thing is, TPs last post made more sense than any of his nonsensical conspiracy theories ever have. Which isn't saying very much, but TP knows how this works.....he has been told by people like David Icke for decades that "they'll never believe you, and call you crazy......DO YOU THINK I'M KERAZZZZZZY????"
On 13 Aug 2023 at 12:36pm Nevillman wrote:
It would be very hard for any conspiracy theorist to acknowledge they were wrong. Their personal belief system and social networks would be threatened. So much easier to continue believing. The resources of big oil make it easy for them to have phony information to back up their beliefs. Self publicists like icke and brand keep reinforcing that it's okay to keep believing.
On 14 Aug 2023 at 9:56am Tom Pain wrote:
You two really are the master baiters.
On 17 Aug 2023 at 9:56am Green Sleeves wrote:
Sorry Conspira-TP, we love you really. We just want to de-radicalise you before you end up being carted away to a deep underground lair in Davos where they lock up all the truth-tellers.
On 17 Aug 2023 at 10:32am Nevillman wrote:
Funnily enough I was telling an old aunt of mine how thrilled I was to have been described as an expert in baiting by someone who I greatly respect and admire. She pointed out that it could have been read as a term of abuse, referring to someone who actually liked to touch themselves in a place that no decent person would even consider touching themselves. Fortunately I was able to reassure her that Tom would never stoop so low and the very idea of it was abhorrent. She was very pleased to hear that we all enjoy participating in a mass debate.