On 24 Feb 2016 at 12:45pm I heart the EU wrote:
The media will lie to us all during the in/out campaign. Keep your minds open, read this for example...
Check it out here »
On 24 Feb 2016 at 1:56pm Realist wrote:
I have read it and what a complete load of old tosh it is too.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 2:02pm Metatron wrote:
Lies, dammed lies and politics.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 2:04pm Zebedee wrote:
Hard to disagree with the sentiment
On 24 Feb 2016 at 2:54pm Laughable wrote:
In the Amazonian rain forests there are tribes of Indians as yet untouched by civilisation who have developed more convincing Pro-EU arguments than this.
Vote Leave
On 24 Feb 2016 at 3:03pm Don wrote:
As an ex-pat living the dream here in Oz I couldn't care less what happens. I'm going to crack open another can, go back to my sun lounger and laugh at the old countries predicament. Enjoy yourselves. Cheers
On 24 Feb 2016 at 3:31pm I heart the EU wrote:
Wow, you have thoroughly convinced me with your carefully reasoned arguments against the article I posted. Thank you for helping me to see the light. I will now vote out!
On 24 Feb 2016 at 5:09pm Nevillman wrote:
Interesting article but unlikely to convert anyone. People tend to look for confirmation of their position. Theoretically I am waiting until voting day to finally decide how to vote but in reality it's a no brainer. Look at some of the people lined up on each side of the article. I know it's a personal choice but I find it hard to ally with some of the nutters who disagree with my probable voting position.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 5:09pm Robert Tinch wrote:
This article is based on the assumption that we don't in fact leave the EU - we stay in it as a member of the EEA.
This is not currently being discussed, I agree with the sentiment above this link is rubbish and pointless - please try and link some facts next time...
On 24 Feb 2016 at 5:55pm Dexter wrote:
Don. Did you have fun on your sun lounger over there in Oz. How was your beer? I can't help noticing it was anytime between 11 o'clock and 2am in the morning when you posted. If all you can think about in the middle of the night over there is little old Lewes I pity you. You need to get a life.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 6:19pm you're joking right? wrote:
Not to be rude but if anyone is honestly swayed by such illiterate garbage backed up by absolutely no evidence then we are truly doomed as a country.
I heart EU why don't you try an argument backed up by facts instead of utterly moronic lies.
What a complete dullard you must be to post such mendacious bullsh*t and then whinge about the response.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 6:23pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Given that basically everyone who reads these threads has already made up their minds about how to vote in the referendum, can't we all just agree now to shut up about it? If anyone is genuinely undecided, I'd suggest looking for news outlets that don't quote any politicians, if only so as not to encourage them.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 7:12pm Paul Newman wrote:
Those are all sound points. The writer does at least start to open up lines of enquiry for those to whom this is all a boring chore they vaguely feel they ought to have a go at .( Normal people in other words).
It Doesn`tr Disapear If We Close Our Eyes
If we leave the EU the EU will still be there UKIP like to talk about replacing 50% of our trade with new markets ( the ones we already deal with ) . Imagine how that suggestion would go down with your employer
“Don’t worry about your mainstay clients we`ll errm do something …errm….”
In other words dismiss all that rubbish and think about how we continue to deal with the EU . Lets leave aside the fact not everyone on the continent is our friend , as we know , and assume we would get back onto some sort of workable terms . Plausible models are Norway and Switzerland both of whom are entirely bound by EU rules and freedom of movement
Ryder claims we can do a much better deal than Norway but as I have explained this is a stupid baseless assertion. Norway is the richest per capita country on the planet. It is likely we would be worse off . China and the US both made it clear they regard dealing with a pipsqueak 3% of world GDP economy as quite a different matter and neither have any wish to deal with us bi laterally .
REMEMBER- This is your job, your brother in laws job you friends job we are talking about, lets keep that in mind ! This is not some balloon debate this is going to hurt real people in Lewes .
Ask Ryder, or any bogus flag waving populist how they plan to make a better yesterday and he will, say “ Don`t know …errm wait and see …. Um… something “
A vote to leave is not only a vote for the unknown it is a vote to enter the unknown lead by blind bigots without a compass. Prove me wrong Ryder , what is the plan , what are you suggesting .If you are going to risk jobs home and families it had better be good !
The second important point is the distinction between the The European Court of Human Rights and the EU. If you take votes for prisoners , for example , which like any sane person, I abhor , it is the Court of Human Rights that hears the case but this institution is formally unconnected ton the EU. I am still unable to find any clue as to whether Farrage and the Tory right intend to take us out of the Human Rights Framework or not . I daresay they would like to . …Anyone with any historic sense of why it is there and who sponsored it ( GREAT BRITAIN and its allies) could hardly bear the national disgrace
Perhaps Ryder can tell us
On 24 Feb 2016 at 7:24pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Actually, I haven't made my mind up yet and I'm trying to read as much as I can to try and make sense of it all. Sadly, Dr Andy's patronising article wasn't much help.
I think that the concept of the EU - as a means to prevent another European war - is at odds with Britain's desire for free trade rather than political integration, but it's really hard to fathom how better off we'd really be in either scenario. There's lots of scaremongering and hyperbole on both sides.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 7:57pm Mr Ryder wrote:
Well if Paul the pathological liar and all round dunce says it's sound then the article must be a pile of steaming lies, which to anyone possessing a brain cell can see it clearly it is.
As ever can't be bothered to trail through your illiteracy but i'll answer a couple I suppose.
'Norway and Switzerland both of whom are entirely bound by EU rules '
Funnily enough it's .... you guessed it a lie.
According to the EFTA Secretariat, the EU generated 52,183 legal instruments between 2000 and 2013, of which Norway adopted 4,724 — 9 per cent.
In Switzerland, there is no ambiguity: the figure is zero per cent. The Swiss sometimes copy EU regulations for reasons of economy of scale, though more often both Switzerland and the EU are adopting global rules. But though Swiss exporters must meet EU standards when selling to the EU (just as they must meet Japanese standards when selling to Japan), they generally don’t apply those standards to their domestic economy. Britain, by contrast, must apply 100 per cent of EU regulations to 100 per cent of its economy.
Paul stop scaremongering and lying. The UK is a vibrant successful economy that would engage in the growing global economy and not tie itself to a declining market veering from crisis to crisis.
In a likely scenario, where the UK strikes a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the EU and fully trades with the rest of the world with bi-lateral trade agreements, UK GDP would be 1.6% higher than if it had stayed within the EU.
It won't make much difference with a range of reports varying from -2% worst case scenario to plus 2% for best.
Try debating some other points. You just lie about the same boring trade arguments over and over again.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 8:02pm Sussex Jim wrote:
Being in the EU has nothing to do with preventing another war.
But being a member of NATO is. Which we were before joining the EU and will still be after leaving.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 8:47pm Mr Ryder wrote:
To Earl of Lewes I have linked an excellent historical documentary on the EU question entitled 'this sceptic isle' from Peter Hitchens. I'm a great believer in learning from history in order to try and not repeat past mistakes and this is a great background for anyone interested in the subject.
I hope it will help add some perspective on the debate for you
Watch the video »
On 24 Feb 2016 at 9:02pm Paul Newman wrote:
The expression is’ trawl’…. through your illiteracy ( you know I wonder if Ryder might be foreign ).Well Ryder as you knowledge of literature extends as far as Peter Hitchens ( ha ha ) I shall not worry overly about your stylistic concerns. So whats is in today’s UKIP leaflet then …
“According to the EFTA Secretariat, the EU generated 52,183 legal instruments between 2000 and 2013, of which Norway adopted 4,724 — 9 per cent”
I see coo that sounds impressive . Ryder you would be a more convincing parrot if there was any evidence you understood what you were writing.
That is like saying my head is in the oven and my feet are in the fridge and on average, quite comfortable. Basically Norway is a member of the EEA. The EEA is guarantees precisely the same "four freedoms" as the EU ,goods, persons, services, and. EEA countries that are not part of the EU enjoy free trade with the European Union. Persons you will note! That is immigration. In fact EEA States are part of the Schengen area and so they have no border at all ! We have more control of our border than either .
It does not cover the CAP , fisheries policies (although it does on trade in agricultural and fish products); customs union; common trade policy blah blah .That’s why a deluge of crud is not transferred from EU to EEA but here’s the fun bit . The EEA members are obliged to comply with the EU stuff that matters and it is simply handed down to them designated part the deal and inflicted with no say whatsoever .
Oh you are also excluded from any common security or foreign policy which is one of the many reasons no-one cares what Norway thinks about anything .
Still, lets leave the EU and apply to join the EEA would at least be a plan, maybe they will let us back in , who knows .In reality I am no further with the real plan than Ryders suggestion we get a Free Trade agreement of some kind
Gee thanks genius. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Professor Ryder whose bold thesis that would hope to get some sort of free Trade deal is about to revolutionise thinking on the entire subject !
Are we leaving the Human Rights Act behind – Ryder don`t know
Are we actually applying to join the EEA- Ryder don’t know
The UK is a vibrant successful economy- Yeah in the EU brains
That would engage in the growing global economy blah blah – ( Is he an estate agent ? Just random crap)
in fact our ability to trade with the US and China two massive chunks of the growing world economy would also be impaired as they have existing Free Trade deals with the EU they are not going to replicate
I can only say again and again and again real people you know here in Lewes will lose their jobs . Real mortgages are at risk . This is not a game for a few weird little contrarians in tin foil hats .
On 24 Feb 2016 at 9:18pm Mr Ryder wrote:
Paul i'm not interested in debating any longer with you, its a waste of mine and others on this forum.
You seem quite unbalanced and my arguments for secession from the EU seem to tip you over the edge into weird ramblings. Let's leave it at there.
On 24 Feb 2016 at 9:23pm Paul Newman wrote:
Peter Hitchens Ryder, seriously, I don`t mind him for entertainment but he is a Daily Mail ranter and not even the brightest Hitchens until the sad death of his much more talented brother
As for learning from history well this country stood alone before but against what ? Against hysterical Nationalist dim witted conspiracy mongering populists, who blame every woe on foreigners and “ Internationalism”
On 25 Feb 2016 at 8:23am Ryder wrote:
Paul stop lying. As Mark pointed out you can't just make things up all the time otherwise you will get pulled up on it which you do and you're made to look a fool continuously.
He actually writes for the Mail on Sunday it's a different paper. He's a social and moral small conservative. I agree with some things he says and disagrees with others like most people. I linked that BBC documentary for EoL not you, as he's very knowledgeable on the subject there is no 'ranting' that is just you dear.
Now go away. Stop lying and get some help.
On 25 Feb 2016 at 9:02am pn wrote:
Hmmm what is that odour of wounded pride.... ah look its little Ryder back. That’s mighty quick flouncing Ryder . (I’d stop taking yourself so seriously if I were you .No-one else does )
Oi Webbo your signing in thing isn`t working !!! WEBBO !!!
On 25 Feb 2016 at 1:37pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Rather than spend all that money on a referendum, why don't PN and Mr Ryder just have a cage fight or something to settle whether we stay in or leave?
On 25 Feb 2016 at 4:53pm Belladonna wrote:
Just put them both in a cage. Although Ryder does have more literate reasoned arguments, and Coukd be more convincing.
My problem with the EU is the bureaucracy, lack of democracy, likelihood of the imposition of TTIP and the complete lack of any sort of 'joined up thinking' on the migration crisis. I seriously doubt whether being in the EU would stop another war. (In fact we are inexorably sliding towards it anyway with Syria becoming a proxy war not only between Sunni and Shiite Islam, but also Russia and the West). But I don't have an issue with EU immigration and don't want to lose the human rights directives or working time agreements protecting our workers.
On 25 Feb 2016 at 4:56pm bastian wrote:
God that's the best idea anyone on here has ever suggested! go for it Annette-where and what time? i'll get the cage.
On 25 Feb 2016 at 5:42pm Historian wrote:
Britain has nearly always been at war with some country for decades, hardly a period in history when we haven't been, so I doubt the EU would influence us !
I'm out !!
On 25 Feb 2016 at 6:07pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
We could hire the Dripping Pan for the fight and sell tickets, Bastian. The money raised could be used to mend a few potholes or something.
On 25 Feb 2016 at 8:26pm Outer Space Cadet. wrote:
Refugees ate my hamster.
On 6 Mar 2016 at 4:20pm tabat wrote:
out