On Wed 13 Jul at 5:49pm Tom Pain wrote:
If anyone has seen what's going on in Sri Lanka or the Netherlands, for that matter. What do you think about it?
On Thu 14 Jul at 7:35pm Nevillman wrote:
No I haven't seen what is going on in either place Tom. Pray tell. What do you think about it?
On Thu 14 Jul at 8:27pm Tom Pain wrote:
To answer your prayer Nev- The Sri Lankans got a little miffed with their glorious leader and set fire to his palace; he had to do a runner to avoid going up with it. He'd ruined the economy with lockdowns and massive corruption, a bit like our own fat controller. The farmers in the Netherlands are making free with manure on public buildings and blocking roads, objecting to the government's agricultural policy which will ruin them. Basically they think that owning nothing won't make them happy and they're venting their displeasure. Please excuse the blatant cop out of answering a question with another, but what do you think about it?
On Thu 14 Jul at 11:29pm Basil wrote:
Remainers think so positively about the EU because so little is reported about what is happening in the individual countries. Apart from the fact that France is always on the edge of electing a fascist as President, we're told very little. In the 1930s the bien-pensant middle class liked to image the Soviet Union was the workers' paradise. It is similar with the way our now 'holidays in the Dordogne' class see the EU.
On Fri 15 Jul at 8:48am Nevillman wrote:
Sri Lanka saddens me Tom. Private eye regularly reports from there so I do follow it. It is a beautiful country with lovely people in my experience. It sounds like we are not the only country where the electorate realise they were fooled. Just looked up news from Holland and see that your story doesn't make the headlines so I'm not going to dip into the huge resovoir of nevillman compassion on that one Tom. I'm sure they'll sort it out without my input on this occasion. Now your opinion please Tom.
Basil, you seem to be saying that all remainers think exactly the same about the EU and that their thoughts are based on ignorance of what is going on in the EU. Equating the EU with the 1930s Soviet Union is a bit of a stretch in the first place and I disagree with your assertion about what remainers think. I support membership of the EU because i think it offers the best hope for prosperity and peace for our country. Your lot won the vote in 2016. Why are you still having a go at remainers? By the way, I am no longer a remainer but now a rejoiner. We will rejoin in one way or another before too long. We will find we can't afford not to. I hope it happens in both our lifetimes and look forward to your posts as you fume. You'll probably have some other fear of it by then as you realise that the neo liberal EU you mythologised wasn't actually true.
On Fri 15 Jul at 4:11pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Some Dutch Farmers are angry about environmental regulations, as them polluting the environment with pesticides and the raising and slaughter of livestock is not as important as their own profits and dont wish to adapt or modernise. Think dutch people should just go vegan for a few months to protest against the dutch farmers!
But of course with tp everything goes back to climate change hoax, lockdowns and the evil WEF and THE GREAT RESET!!! They are all in it together. Prince Charles is one of the ring leaders.
On Fri 15 Jul at 10:58pm Tom Pain wrote:
If it was about pesticides I'd be somewhat in agreement but it's about fertiliser. My vegetable growing is organic and I use manure for nitrogen. The pollution from animal waste comes from intensive factory farming- see the scandals about Plumpton College for that. Small time mixed farming is sustainable but the corporate mono culture with gen-mod is the problem and that's the Gates model causing so much tragedy in Africa and India. It's part of what's ironically called the new green deal and building back better (for the 1%). Having gone in for genetic modification yourself, it won't bother you but it's not for me. Fascism isn't my thing, nev, it's corporatism and it's taking over here and Europe. I noticed an ESCC van the other day, its logo included- in partnership with Greedco or some such. That's the way it's done- quietly. How come you said you didn't know about Sri Lanka, which statement is true? The first or the second? Which is a cynical lie?
On Sat 16 Jul at 9:18am Green Sleeves wrote:
Yeah, intensive factory farming is an environmental disaster, as well as cruel. Sadly though, unless people take the consequences of eating meat and dairy seriously, the demand for it will always mean factory farming is the only way for the planet to satisfy that particular appetite. If the average meat eater were to consume meat/dairy just a couple or a few times of week as some sort of "treat", it might be just about sustainable, but i think its almost impossible to expect that people can be weaned off animal products so easily. Most are unwilling in any case. Intense factory farming is sadly here to stay, unless governments intervene and add regulations that force reducing it.
The only realistic way of sustainably and efficiently feeding the planet, is for humanity to shift heavily towards a plant based diet. This would massively reduce carbon emissions. Humanities addiction with bad things is a hard one to shake off though, just like our dependence on fossil fuels.
On Sat 16 Jul at 11:01am Nevillman wrote:
Humanity has got as much chance of voluntarily switching to a plant based diet as it has of giving up using its cars. I'm really starting to think we should reappraise genetic modification to produce more drought resistant, insect resistant strains that can feed the planet without as much need for pesticide , water and fertilizer. I know GM had a bad name due to the actions of some chemical corporations but it doesn't have to be like that and man has been genetically modifying plants and animals for at least 13,000 years.
I think my kids old chemistry set is in the loft and it will give me something to do this afternoon.
I don't know what you mean by the gates model Tom but it is a fact that 130,000 people a day every day for the last 30 years have left the category of extreme poverty. Far fewer people are dying of starvation than ever in the past. Please Google this to check. We can argue about why, how and how sustainably. More of them want meat, refrigerators and all the things we've been talking for granted.
By the way Tom, accusing someone of a cyclical lie is not nice. I had no idea what you were talking about in Sri Lanka of Holland. Please try to be more specific.
On Sat 16 Jul at 11:07am Tom Pain wrote:
CO2 emissions encourage the growth of the very plants we like to eat. The transport of food to supply it to the eater is a pollution factor which could be greatly reduced by a local approach which as a by product would leave the food much fresher and more nutritious. The problem is- the vast multinational corporations would be cut out of the picture. Their financial clout means they don't want this to happen and they will do anything to prevent it. It's obvious to me that big business with it's central control mechanism is the major factor in pollution creation. Localism is sustainable globalism is not. The important dichotomy is between the two, all other varieties such as the left/right divide are trivial in importance. The trouble is- the globalists have all the money and as is blatantly obvious - we always get the best government that money can buy, whatever they call themselves. By
On Sat 16 Jul at 11:26am Green Sleeves wrote:
We produce plenty of food already, just huge amounts of it goes into animal feed for livestock. Its inefficient and also requires massive amounts of water. Another resource that will potentially become more scarce as the planet continues to heat up.
The west and its appetite for animal food is not a good example to the developing world. We are at the point when its contributing to poorer health because of the quantity consumed.
Also wars...another massive contributor to climate change, the US military is considered to be one of the leading sources of pollution in the world, pumping out more co2e than many countries.
On Sat 16 Jul at 8:05pm Tom Pain wrote:
Oh, it must have been you I saw, hunkered down, chewing the grass on the Downs the other day. Go for it, cut out the middle cow. You might like the new product I'm developing - cabbage flavoured burgers- made from reconstituted beef, you won't be able to tell it from real cabbage.
On Sun 17 Jul at 9:38am Green Sleeves wrote:
Erm, great...joke? I think the only true sustainable way for humanity to continue to eat meat in such quantities, is if lab grown in-vitro meat takes off. If that can be mass produced, without intense use of resources and energy, it might just be a solution for the meat-addicts in our society who are unwilling to have even one meal off animal protein. I wouldn't personally return to a meat-eating diet if that became mainstream, but I'd support it as an industry.
On Sun 17 Jul at 11:48pm Tom Pain wrote:
G.M is a completely different thing to controlled breeding or hybridisation of plants and animals nev. Is this another of your duplicities or do you not know that? Did you think I was talking about tea growing in Sri Lanka earlier? Pull the other one.
On Mon 18 Jul at 9:26pm Tom Pain wrote:
Not a joke sleevie blunder. Why have artificial things that need factories that need power and transported ingredients. Oh yes and all the machinery that needs to be made to do it, erm lots of co2 there. I don't notice the downs being watered, the sheep produce the manure for the grass. I don't see a problem with that. Of course the people who who sell our imaginary currency would see a big problem- not enough transactions. Read your posts to see how they overcome that.
On Tue 19 Jul at 9:00am Green Sleeves wrote:
You need factories to satisfy the demand of peoples appetites. Hence why factory farms exist in the first place. We either have to eat considerably less meat as a species, or we look to artificial methods that would be more efficient and less polluting, but also much more ethical. It seems that people won't give up their meat addiction easily, so this seems to be a fair compromise. You simply can't supply the worlds desire for meat through sustainable, free-range farming that appears in your rose-tinted dreamland.
On Tue 19 Jul at 10:54am Tom Pain wrote:
Will you give up your vegan addiction? Your fantasy utopia? Your control freak impulse to describe other people's choices as addictions? Factory farms could well be a symptom of the monopoly disease suffered by the corporate sharks who want to own and control everything. Anyway, the forum stoner seems to be in a rather delicate position to comment on addictions.
On Tue 19 Jul at 2:04pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Id change my mostly plant based diet if i knew it was cruel, unethical and harmful. I did used to eat meat and dairy daily, now just occasionally dabble in dairy products.
Intensive animal agriculture isnt going away because there is huge demand. But hey, its worth it for sunny days like this eh? Hotter summers, whats the big deal?!
As for labeling it as an addiction, apologies, perhaps "habit" would have been less upsetting for you.
On Tue 19 Jul at 2:20pm Green Sleeves wrote:
P.S ive no issues with being called a stoner or weed addict. If the consequences for using weed was significant, id quit, just like i did for my previous meat addiction.
On Tue 19 Jul at 6:17pm Tom Pain wrote:
So eating meat makes hot sunny weather.... Well if you believe the nitrogenous waste in the media it might make sense to you. It used to be the church that peddled hysterical doom mongering and the suckers fell for it. Now I suppose it's Almighty Science. What puzzles me is- do you believe this rubbish or have you got some skin in the game? Are you the Kovid Klimate Konman or a fear porn addict, Mr (soi disant) kind ethical and harmless?
On Tue 19 Jul at 6:51pm Tom Pain wrote:
A miacle! Whilst I was writing the temperature has dropped by at least ten degrees. Ten million people must have converted to your saintly ways and given up meat. It'll be snowing by tomorrow.
On Tue 19 Jul at 8:18pm Green Sleeves wrote:
The scientists you consistently undermine, are among the very same ones that predicted the temperature would fall today and storms would come, with the heat wave ending. This is because they know what they are talking about and have the scientific community, instruments and global satellites aiding them. So don't be shocked.
On Wed 20 Jul at 9:11am Nevillman wrote:
Tom's right. It is much cooler today. This whole climate change thing must be complete nonsense. It probably means he's right about the moon landings, vaccines, 911 and the lizard people as well. He certainly makes you think.
On Wed 20 Jul at 11:26am Tom Pain wrote:
The return of the fatuous tweedle trolls on their moon buggies, in perfect formation deserves a round of applause. Those brilliant scientists have predicted the cyclical weather pattern that happens since weather began. Will they continue this logic? Don't hold your breath, that's not what they're paid for.
On Wed 20 Jul at 7:07pm Green Sleeves wrote:
yes tp, and who do you think pays for the propaganda that attempts to dispel climate change, and cast them as myths? I'd imagine there are plenty of industries that are far from "green" that lobby governments to ensure that climate change is not taken seriously, especially when it comes to their profits.
On Wed 20 Jul at 10:34pm Tom Pain wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the first sentence, but - hey ho. I haven't seen any propaganda on the mainstream media decrying the theory of man made climate change, so I presume that anyone who wants to do it hasn't much cash or clout. That kind of rules out the usual suspect I feel and I wonder where you've seen it. Absent such propaganda the question is void.
On Thu 21 Jul at 4:30pm Green Sleeves wrote:
David Icke and Piers Corbyn get plenty of coverage for their views on man made climate change. Cant shut them up!
I was mainly talking about industrial giants lobbying governments to ensure their profits are protected. Even at the cost to the environment.
On Thu 21 Jul at 6:52pm Tom Pain wrote:
Icke and P Corbyn ive never seen in the mainstream. You must be watching those conspiracy channels you naughty little boy. Who'd have thought it, coming on so conformist and obedient, the perfect establishment spokesman has a tin foil hat in the closet, you dark horse you!
On Thu 21 Jul at 8:09pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Nah, Corbyn and Icke get plenty of mainstream press, albeit ridicule. But thats because they know the real truth!!! 