On Sat 8 May at 12:21pm Nevillman wrote:
From uiop's latest post on the East chiltington development it still seems to be going ahead. Everywhere I go I see big new housing developments. Ignoring the issue of whether we should be building on farmland like that, I'm finding it difficult to believe that there will be sufficient customers for all of them. There may be a housing shortage in certain areas for certain people but I'm not sure that the developments at East chiltington, malling, uckfield and the many others I've seen are going to help. Any thoughts?
On Sat 8 May at 6:05pm Tom Pain wrote:
They're everywhere, popping up like mushrooms but much uglier.
On Sun 9 May at 11:14am Stephen Watson wrote:
The problem is not a housing shortage as such, it's that houses are too expensive for first time buyer. Developers and their political spivs would like you to think that concreting over the countryside will bring prices down, but actually that's the last thing they they want. Profits are made by building executive homes on greenfield sites, not affordable social housing. These expensive new homes will be marketed at wealthy people from elsewhere in the UK or abroad. The Conservatives are actually very keen on immigration, as long as the migrants are wealthy. By the way, did you know that the land at East Chiltington is owned by Eton College, alma mate of Boris and many other Conservatives? It's a clique thing.
On Sun 9 May at 3:04pm Mark wrote:
What we need is apartment buildings with apartments. Think of Friends. In North America central city living in an apartment is considered to be really cool. Obviously not in a historic place like Lewes.
On Mon 10 May at 7:13am Sussex Jim wrote:
There is not so much of a housing shortage; more a case of not enough households for preferred lifestyles. In the past, single working adults tended to live with their parents until they married. Or go into lodgings if they worked away from home.
Now everyone wants a place of their own and live independently- wether they can afford it, or not. The original housing stock is still there. it just needs using more efficiently.
On Mon 10 May at 11:56pm Basil wrote:
Mark wrote: 'What we need is apartment buildings with apartments. Think of Friends.'
Or flats as we used to call them. This American nonsense is pathetically 90s 'New' Labour, isn't it?So 'cool'.
On Mon 17 May at 12:23pm Uiop wrote:
I'm grateful for Nevillman starting this discussion and being so generous as to refer back to me. My delay in saying anything here has been that I've been going round in circles trying to find a complicated explanation when it may be there isn't one. There's a disconnect between houses being built and land developers putting in plans to convert greenfield agricultural sites to build houses. UK gov data says agricultural land here around Lewes cost £10,117 / acre. Once it gets planning permission it's worth £1,800,000 / acre. So if you have a site of 500 acres (say) like Eton in East Chiltington - that's a big gain. The land increases by nearly £1.8 million per acre just for getting outline planning approved. And then the land goes up in value pegged to house prices. Not farmland prices - which have been pretty flat for nearly 20 years. The land promoter doesn't have to build any houses to get this increase in their wealth. In fact the longer they wait and the less houses that get built - the better from the landbanking point of view. In practise - the land promoters - who are experts at getting plans accepted - often offer their services to big land owners on a no win no fee basis - and take a percentage of the land value gain. It's a clever business to be in - because it's low risk once they have the legal and planning and PR expertise of having done it a couple of times.
In 2009 an article in the FT said this - "Welbeck Land, a property development group, is hoping to raise £100 million in new equity, part of which will fund efforts to obtain planning consents for farmers – to increase the value of each acre from £5,000 to more than £2m – in parts of Sussex. In return, Welbeck will receive 20 per cent of the profits when the land is sold, said Alistair Watson managing director."
There are many others in this business. Fairfax, the developer hoping to get permission for 89 houses on an adjacent field site in Plumpton (Nolands Farm) is in the same market and someone who met them up with them recently said they are very polite and very skilled. So we - as ignorant nimby's and environmentalists or whatever - have to take them seriously and fear that they mostly get want they want - according to stats by CPRE on planning appeals etc. Democracy is something which changes the people you see in the tv news. It doesn't work the same way in planning - where it's what you know which matters more.
You can see the link to this at the end.
Check it out here »
On Sun 23 May at 11:49pm IDM wrote:
Stephen Watson - we have known about the Eton connection for a while. See the thread "name for a new town west of Lewes - ideas?".