On 3 Oct 2016 at 11:10am Middle aged bloke wrote:
I'm with Pedro. Most everything he has said has made sense. From the age of 14 till the age of 40 I took a small selection of drugs with varying but decreasing frequency (weed, acid, mushrooms, opium, speed, ecstacy, poppers etc). Now in my mid fifties I just smoke dope very infrequently or have a few mushrooms when the season is upon us. And I enjoy them immensely. I am not addicted by any stretch of the imagination. And I have a good number of friends who do the same. None of us are wasters. Most run small and successful businesses and a few are quite well off (detached houses in the country etc).
I, like Pedro can't see a huge distinction between alcohol and many other drugs, excepting that alcohol is legal. If someone is going to get addicted to drugs they are just as likely to get addicted to alcohol (if not more so due to its legal status). If I were to choose between having alcohol legal or pot legal it would be pot every time. Pot does not cause people to get aggressive, fight and hurt people, and does not destroy relationships with injudicious words or poison families with continual aggression and anger. Pot will not make our city centres no-go zones at night. Pot will not destroy your liver. The worst it will do is make you a bit dull, slow and dozy.
So, how to I deal with my fifteen year of son? I tell him that the main problems are addition and legality and that if he chooses to drink or takes drugs then he must be aware that drugs are illegal and that anything but small amounts will not do him any good. I also point out that his brain and character are forming and that natural formation will be perverted by heavy use of anything, possibly causing mental issues or slowing his growth and maturation. I also point of that alcohol is particularly dangerous as people lose control and do things that they'd never dream of when sober. I urge him to avoid drunk people as they are often unpredictable and can be prone to violence. I hope that he listens and will make his own mind up. I state reasonably that I’d prefer him not to do anything illegal or to drink anything but small amounts. I also tell him that his parents will always be there for him.
One thing I do not do is tell him that drugs, and especially cannabis, are bad per-se. This is what my parents told me, saying I'd go mad and become addicted to pot once I tried it. At the age of 14 I found out that this was a lie. So I assumed that everything they'd told me about all drugs were lies. And in fact it wasn't, there are some drugs that are dangerous (heroin, crack and methamphetamine come to mind). So, my parents way of dealing with the teenage predilection to experiment backfired on them and did me no favours at all.
Drugs are currently endemic in our secondary schools (and sadly Priory seems to be the worst of the schools I know). It is inevitable our teenagers will come across them. Parents need to deal with the issue sensibly and not alienate their children with misinformation and threats. It is important that you keep the channels of communication open with your kids. This, by a long way is the most important thing.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 11:47am Middle aged bloke 2 wrote:
Fooling yourself - nobody else.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 11:59am Pedro wrote:
Good post MAB, a very reasonable and sensible approach to drugs.
Both adults and children spend their lives, everyday, taking bigger risks than using cannabis, but I think its important that people do their research and be open minded about the possibilities and benefits that recreational and medical consumption can bring and balance them with any risks/dangers. Cannabis and mushrooms are low-risk, relatively non-addictive drugs, anyone who suggests they're putting life, limb and brain at risk from any kind of moderate exposure to them has been mislead and misleading others. This has been the problem why it remains stigmatised (weed) for many even in 2016.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 12:47pm Lewes Citizen wrote:
Oh dear pedro. It is quite clear from the long winded waffle of "middle aged bloke" and the identical arguements that IT'S YOU. Hehehe....feeling a tad guilty about your nasty habit??
On 3 Oct 2016 at 12:53pm The Greek wrote:
Spot on MAB. Unfortunately our society doesn't seem able to cope with rational, evidence-based approaches to anything.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 12:54pm . wrote:
You mean the 'evidence' that cannabis damages the brain and causes psychosis? Funnily enough that's why it's illegal.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 12:59pm Howard Marks wrote:
If I want to damage my brain and become psychotic then I damnwellwill.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:03pm Middle Aged Bloke wrote:
@ Lewes Citizen. I assure you that I have no idea who Pedro is. But both our posts supporting a sensible and measured outlook to drug use show a deeper reasoning and maturity than your childish posts display. Anyone can wind someone up. It's not big and it's not clever, it's just pathetic. If you don't have anything valid to contribute please do the readers of this forum a favour and go elsewhere.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:04pm Pedro wrote:
@"." - Yes absolutely include even the evidence that suggests that there are correlations in increase rates of psychosis in younger heavy users, and it should be considered in the full context along with the many new and old studies which conclude that its perfectly safe. The point is that people should make a decision whether to consume it based on all the evidence currently available, of which there is a reasonable amount. Even the most negative studies are not particularly alarming, as its clear that using it in moderation is not harmful and we have to put it into some context as to other risks that one takes in life. Putting aside the "fun" recreational element, it has to be weighed up for is many medicinal properties like with any drug - side effects are lesser than many other conventional medicines, some of which also have been shown to cause psychosis and other mental and physical issues,
As for its legality, its illegal in the UK, but now legal in many places around the world, and that list is growing. This would suggest that governments are seeing benefits in legalising it, and understanding that the risks are not anywhere near high enough to offset those benefits, and that adults can make their own choices in life about what they consume.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:09pm Another old druggie wrote:
Alcohol causes cancer, car crashes, and a hell of a lot of violence.. almost everyday. Any harm caused by pot is in comparison, vanishingly small... and only then occurs with very long term heavy usage. See link for cancer and alcohol.
Check it out here »
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:15pm Pedro wrote:
If we were to ban any consumable substance equally as dangerous as cannabis or moreso, we would all be left with very little.
Personally, I'd prefer that research continues on all substances and individuals can evaluate the evidence of all studies and weigh up whether they want to eat a digestive biscuit or vape some weed despite the small risks in doing either.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:36pm Can I score some wrote:
moreso, I've not tried that.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 1:55pm Lewes Citizen wrote:
Clearly one of the effects of weed is a decrease in the ability to understand basic scientific facts. Your rather naft arguement that just because alcohol and tobacco are legal, cannabis should be legal is just plain daft
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:02pm Secret shaman wrote:
My Dad used to get given cigars by wealthy clients. He didn't smoke but left them out for guest's. When I was about 9 or 10 I " borrowed " one. Spent several afternoons trying to convince myself I liked it. Never felt the need to ever smoke again.But........I am quite interested in doing the Ayahuasca, anyone done that?
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:21pm i nobrot wrote:
oh do give it a rest Lewis citizen your out your brain depth,do you want people selling alcohol in lewes toilets as well?
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:26pm Pedro wrote:
@Lewes Citizen - I think you are failing to grasp anything I've written (or being incredible selective), including the overwhelming evidence on the medicinal benefits of cannabis that helps a variety of conditions, already now used as a therapeutic option in 25 states in the USA as well as in other countries. The hemp industry would also be a positive by-product as well from the legal cannabis trade as well as the billions in tax revenues it would raise. The status quo that you support, would be to let illegal drug dealers keep the money and continue to potentially expose people to criminal gangs, rather than investing it taxes raised into the education system or other public services. What you suggest simply makes no sense at all, and I find it hard to believe you even believe it. I would be more inclined to believe you're just a lonely troll looking to fill his day by being perverse.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:41pm Lewes Citizen wrote:
Yada yada.... Fact is its an illegal substance and has been shown to effect brain function. Fact....read some papers in main scientific journals
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:46pm Pharmaceutical msc wrote:
From a study in the bmj:
Cannabis use is a risk factor for the development of incident psychotic symptoms. Continued cannabis use might increase the risk for psychotic disorder by impacting on the persistence of symptoms.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:48pm Old man wrote:
Illegal or not the fact is many people smoke it and resent being told what they can and cant do. Like many I smoke, have smoked for decades and will continue to smoke. When you can come up with a SINGLE reason why something I do affects you or society (that doesn't apply to alcohol or tobacco) I might reconsider.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 2:50pm @pharm wrote:
Link something that doesn't use the word *might*, god you are stupid to quote this.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:00pm Middle Aged Bloke wrote:
'Lewes Citizen's argument is specious. He is saying just because there is a small indication that it might cause some harm it should be banned. By this measure he would want to ban sugar, fat, weedkiller, the combustion engine, fire and all manner of things we use every day. It's a non-argument.
Oh and while I am here I've always been able to take or leave any drug I've enjoyed bar two... coffee and alcohol. I stopped drinking coffee once. The day after I felt like the top of my head had been sliced off, I couldn't concentrate and my brains went quite mushy. This lasted till I gave in and had had another cup. And as for alcohol... well, it's very hard to not open a can of cold bear when I get home or have wine with my diner. By Lewes Citizen's reckoning both alcohol and coffee should be banned.
But you can't ban everything
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:03pm Pedro wrote:
Frankly, nearly every substance that we consume, can have consequences to health if we go beyond sensible moderation which I've always advocated. Even the most negative of studies on weed, is never conclusive, and often relates to particularly high consumption of the drug over a long period, and often starting from an early age when it would be illegal anyway to consume (all with a plethora of contradictory studies to make it even less plausible). For the 900th time, no one is suggesting or implying that any child take any drugs. We're talking about consenting adults.
The anti-drugs squad on this forum are badly floundering now in this argument. They see no value in creating a regulated industry worth billions to the UK economy and would create thousands of jobs and opportunities, freeing up police resources, potentially reducing the binge-drinking culture, reducing overall crime as proven elsewhere. The old fear mongering propaganda really did a number on them...
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:03pm + wrote:
and by driving things underground you bring a criminal element to the table and all that does for society.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:12pm . wrote:
Old man - are all dopeheads as selfish and irresponsible as you? Judging by the comments on here then yes they are.
This drug has a prevalence far beyond what it should have were the law enforced properly- the answer is proper enforcement not legalisaton. Legalisation would result in many more people suffering from a psychotic episode of which they may never recover. It can destroy not only the life of the taker but their family too - if you don't think this has any effect on society then shame on you.
Why are you so desperate to let corporations make money out of this? it's sickening.
It is totally unacceptable for a few selfish smokers to inflict their habit on society.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:12pm Pharmaceutical msc wrote:
And cannabis is illegal because? I have a BSc in Molecular Biology and am studying for an MSc in Pharmacology, so have the courtesy not to call be stupid for quoting the BMJ, one of the worlds most elite medical journals.
Please enlightened me on your qualifications with regards to drugs, other than you are a user.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:15pm BMJ wrote:
We can all quote the BMJ, FYI they have posted a lot of good articles on why the current drugs policy is wrong.
Check it out here »
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:15pm Pedro wrote:
@Middle Aged Bloke - exactly. Careful with your alcohol consumption today, as if you get a hangover tomorrow morning, you may resort to taking another legal drug in the various forms of painkillers - in fact, just paracetamols alone killed 20 times more people in the UK last year than cannabis did! Factor in all painkillers, and it takes around 2,000 UK citizens lives every year, Cannabis is typically in single figures - and this is an unregulated supply and industry.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:20pm . wrote:
Pedro are you pretending to be thick or is this the real deal?
Millions more people take paracetamol than cannabis therefore you can't compare the two. Same as alcohol. Just because something won't kill doesn't mean it has serously damaging effects. Stop dodging the debate and tell us why you engage wiliingly in a criminal activity and why a potentially very damaging substance should be freely available?
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:21pm @Pharm wrote:
*And cannabis is illegal because? *
Actually it's because Cannabis was added to the agenda of the 1925 Convention on Narcotics Control because Egypt and Turkey proposed it.
Primarily because milling techniques meant it could finally start to rival cotton and be used in clothes production (not just for rope, paper and sacks).
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:23pm Pedro wrote:
Its not that unreasonable to assume that a legalisation of a drug would lead to a massive increase in adoption of that drug, but this rarely has borne out in countries where drugs have been legalised or de-criminalised. The conservative anti-drugs campaigners in Portugal back in 2001 were suggesting the "inevitable" sharp rise of drug taking/abuse, but this never materialised, and drug use has actually declined in the 15 years since. Crucially, drug overdoses and deaths has also fallen massively, and is now far below the EU average level (which the UK is in fact, above that average now).
Sometimes "radical" ideas actually work. The status quo isn't working now on drugs policy, so I'm not quite sure what people are trying to salvage? Some people just hate change I guess...
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:30pm Pedro wrote:
@ "." - you do realise that millions of people across the world smoke/vape/consume cannabis safely, including in the UK, and it actually works as a very good pain reliever, without the kind of risks involved with NSAIDs and other otc pain relief drugs (that kills hundreds of thousands globally).
Any drug risk-assessment study confirms that legal painkillers should be used very sparingly, as overdoses are not difficult to achieve, and they can be addictive. Weed is less addictive, and the over-dose limit where life can be immediately threatened is nigh on impossible. If doctors were to prescribe cannabis in certain circumstances instead of strong over-the-counter pain killers, we could see a fall in these fatalities almost instantly.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 3:53pm Potty wrote:
Pedo...you are a disgusting individual disguising your filthy habit in rhetoric.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 4:33pm Middle Aged Bloke wrote:
@. I think you'd be surprised how many people smoke weed. The US State of Colorado certainly were. The state government was taken aback by how many tax dollars they gained from legalizing it. See link.
Check it out here »
On 3 Oct 2016 at 6:03pm Resoonsible parent wrote:
Mmm. My child has a headache...paracetamol or cannabis? According to pedro its weed all the way
On 3 Oct 2016 at 6:34pm Pedro wrote:
@resoonsible parent - nope, never suggested that Mr Hyperbole. However, I'd much rather my child accidentally swallow a few grams of cannabis than just a small handful of paracetamols. The latter would be highly toxic, and potentially a tragic lethal overdose.
If my child was to suffer from seizures, I would certainly consider the option of using cannabis, as I have seen how effective it is for treating children with conditions such as epilepsy. Its now already administered over in many US states to children, so the stigma you are trying to continue to perpetuate here towards the notion of children using cannabis, is now officially outdated.
On 3 Oct 2016 at 6:49pm Jeffry wrote:
Why is it that the most articulate debaters are arguing the case for cannabis and the semi-educated, inarticulate are those just going "it causes psychosis, that's why it's illegal"?
On 3 Oct 2016 at 6:56pm Chaucer wrote:
Good point.