On 14 Feb 2017 at 6:51am Newms wrote:
With the Conservatives pursuing a hard Brexit policy after a divisive referendum you might expect consequences but not a bit of it . The deep unpopularity of Labour, accentuated by Corbyn is still the underlying story
Currently the staggering numbers are as follows :
When you think that UKIP and Conservative are more or less interchangeable this is a horrifying lurch to the right.
For a centrist like me its easy to despair but all you can do is keep making what you hope is the moderate and sensible case opposing anti immigrant hysteria and the benefits of civilised capitalism .If you look across Europe the toxic mixture of far right Protectionism and Ethnic aggression is even stronger .
Dark days indeed and all the more need for Liberal opinion to register whatever opposition it can to the march of intolerance and fairy tale economics.
Bad though it is , how much worse will it be when the low paid and resentful realise the bag of lies they have been sold.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 7:37am Bob wrote:
Another excellent post Newms. Have you thought of doing a Blog or maybe even a column in the Sussex Express / Argus?
On 14 Feb 2017 at 7:42am Pressman wrote:
... or the Daily Mail!
On 14 Feb 2017 at 8:07am Here we go again … wrote:
Dark days ahead for a muppet like you. Bright future for the rest of us
On 14 Feb 2017 at 8:38am Uncle Ben wrote:
Benjy is calling you home Paul. It's all part of the plan. You can feel at home there without all the annoying Saxon habits you despise so much. There's no horrible working class oiks to annoy you there either,just psychopathic Russians. You can explain to your brethren how they need to bring in lots of Syrians and Africans to make the desert bloom!
On 14 Feb 2017 at 9:51am Bob wrote:
Er, I was serious.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 9:51am The Greek wrote:
On 14 Feb 2017 at 10:07am @newms, bob & thegreek wrote:
Get a life. Change the record. Take some antidepressants. Take a walk in the countryside.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 10:16am Thatch wrote:
The rise of the populism across Europe has been driven by your beloved EU.
Iplayer last weeks documentry on BBC2 " Brexit, The Battle Of Europe" at one point I had to check it was BBC2 and not a UKIP propagander video.
Latest poll shows 64% now back Btexit.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 10:55am Tom Pain wrote:
Thatch has nailed it. The EU is a step too far for most people and they are backpedaling. Why has something so attractive as closer involvement with our neighbours turned into monstrous behemoth that is consuming it's constituent parts? As for "fairy tale"economics,one has no further to look than the euro, surely nobody but a fanatic could be blind to that.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 11:05am Donald Trump wrote:
Hail me!Hail Brexit!
On 14 Feb 2017 at 11:09am Alan wrote:
Time to encourage all the foreigners to leave..
On 14 Feb 2017 at 11:36am Ed Can Do wrote:
Dark Omens was a great game, totally underrated. One of the only games on PS1 to support the Playstation Mouse, weird how that never caught on.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 12:32pm Pedro wrote:
I'd love to know about this monstrous behemoth of the EU, but feel it may require reading hysterical claims and exaggerations in Breitbart, The Daily Mail and Express. Then i'd have to actually buy into their lies/distortions and have paranoid and inexplicable thoughts about the EU, muslims, immigrants, fishing quotas, the shape of bananas and anything that is considered as "unpatriotic". They can't take our "pint" away from us can they?!?! NOOOOOOOOO! I will never go to a pub where they demand I ask for a 568ml container of beer (probably from Belgium as well), its just not proper "brittish" innit.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 12:42pm Clifford wrote:
Newms wrote: '... a divisive referendum...'
Paul, do you think all elections are 'divisive'? You know, when people vote for different parties, don't all vote for the same party? The referenum wasn't divisive, it simply revealed that more voters wanted to leave the EU than wanted to remain. No doubt you're unhappy with that, but would you have called the referendum 'divisive' if the vote has gone the other way?
On 14 Feb 2017 at 1:15pm Pedro wrote:
@clifford, they are when its this close, and when it is over essentially a pretty permanent and definitive issue such as EU membership. Although not sure how "permanent" it would have been had remain won, as I'm sure the "leavers" would have also not been quite so gracious and accepting of such a narrow loss (just look at Scotland, and that was a more convincing result). The call for a second referendum on the EU would have always been made, regardless of side, unless the result was fairly overwhelming. 51.9/48.1 is just in no way an "overwhelming" result or mandate.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 1:45pm Splifford wrote:
The EU is a Neo Lesbian project run by Goldman Sex. Now we are free!
On 14 Feb 2017 at 2:09pm Tom Pain wrote:
I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the media you read Pedro but I presume that it must disagree with wherever you get your opinions from. From the long list of paranoias you suffer from I can only hope you recover from them speedily. I'm a great appreciater of diversity and actually like foreign,I hope that word doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities, countries and cultures and hate to see them diluted into a bland euro homogeneity.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 2:19pm Thatch wrote:
Quite right. The very people that fly the flag for diversity and the EU clearly lack an understsnding of the project. For it to work all countries have to sing from the same song sheet so at best, our wonderfully diverse continent will be diluted.
What is wrong with being patriotic?
On 14 Feb 2017 at 2:36pm Pedro wrote:
@ thatch and Tom Pain - how exactly is our culture being diluted by the EU? What IS or was our culture in any case? I fail to see the void and cultural deficit, We are british and european and demonstrate aspects of both and have done for many decades. The paranoia is in your heads thinking we're somehow less of a country now, because we still have lots of British born people (a massive majority), we are just also called home to many more from different backgrounds and origins as well and largely better for it.
Patriotism is fine, up to a point. Beyond that its unreasonable, irrational and dangerous. Thats when it fuels nationalism and creates hate and suspicion about anyone who looks or speaks differently. We're human beings first, not british or european first.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 2:53pm Thatch wrote:
What you are failing to grasp is that for political union to work, culturely we all have to be the same and this is the long term of the Brussells elite.
On the programme last week the man who is negotiating on behalf of the EU on Brexit said that for the EU to work there it needed to be one soverign state , one government and and most frighteningly one army.
I would rather be w Patriot over a Globalist.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 3:42pm The Greek wrote:
Countries are dead, made to deal with the bureaucracy required by industrialisation. Now Europe is facing a post-industrial future which is more connected I'm all for closer union. Common standards, common goals and outlooks with visa-free travel and rights to live and work in a land mass considerably smaller than the USA all make life easier.
A collection of loosely federated regions/cities is definitely the way forwards. However I do stress I don't think the EU is it.
Check it out here »
On 14 Feb 2017 at 3:44pm Pedro wrote:
@ thatch, i'm not failing to grasp, its you who is desperately reaching to clutch at something that doesn't exist, and obsessed with Brussels as some new breed and shady form of enemy entity. Its pure paranoia created by hypotheticals being relayed by people with an obvious agenda, like the self-serving rabble rouser Nigel Farage, who despite being elected as MEP, show no interest in representing anyone but his very narrow and specific interests as is demonstrated by having virtually the lowest attendance record in roll-call votes.
The "EU Army" is another daft right wing headline, but even in the unlikely event of that ever occurring, why does it "frighten" you or what about it scares you? What do you imagine would happen with an EU army, on top of the fact we have had NATO for over 60 years?
On 14 Feb 2017 at 3:44pm The Greek wrote:
In fact history shows that is exactly what Europe was and always has been. "Countries" as they are are a pretty new concept...
On 14 Feb 2017 at 4:08pm Thatch wrote:
You have both just answed the question about the rise in populism across the continent.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 4:31pm Pedro wrote:
@ thatch - yea, the rise in populism is due to "grubby little opportunists" like Nigel Farage who prey on peoples fears through lies or distortions. Well done for buying into these cheap dishonest tactics. I'm sure nationalism will be a great success for everyone.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 5:42pm Sussex Jim wrote:
Any thread started by Newms is worth avoiding reading.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 5:50pm Thatch wrote:
Pedro, could you enlighten us with some Farage lies.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 5:55pm Tom Pain wrote:
What is this post industrial future? Selling beads to Chinese and Indian tourists? What is it connected to? It sounds very utopian to me. I've read all that New Scientist stuff before.How about HGWells Open Conspiracy and The New World Order, have you read them? Same old stuff written nearly 100 years ago. It's Cecil Rhodes dream,a One World Government.Wells was a propagandist for these people and I see the same jive today and I don't believe it.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 6:11pm Suidical wrote:
You're not helping
On 14 Feb 2017 at 6:34pm Pedro wrote:
@ thatch, its slightly concerning that you've seemingly not done even some cursory fact-checking on Nigel Farage's claims before, and now asking me to do it on your behalf. But fair enough, the onus is on me, as I clearly brought this alarming and breaking news to your attention in the first place. A simple search reveals some lies and distortions, like this article linked here below :
Check it out here »
On 14 Feb 2017 at 6:57pm Stewpot wrote:
And you present your case in the form of the Huffington Post.
On 14 Feb 2017 at 7:18pm Pedro wrote:
@ stewpot, in this case yes (can you post more than one link per message on this forum? I couldn't find an obvious way without just displaying the crude copy and pasted link). It was the first of dozens of pages of results. The claims made can also be individually fact-checked, and with relative ease. Many of these claims have been uttered by Farage, by UKIP propaganda (of which he was the leader during this period), and during debates like the LBC debate (with Farage and Nick Clegg).
To be fair to Nigel Farage though, and unlike his idol Trump, he does occasionally admit when he is wrong and backtracks on false propaganda or statements he or his party made when exposed and fact-checked. So there is that. So we could suggest he is NABAT (not as bad as Trump).
On 14 Feb 2017 at 8:24pm Please stop wrote:
Another reparative self indulgent thread for all the usual boring mega droners. Get a bloody life the lot of you. Or just go and start a blog and leave us all alone. We have had weeks of this utter dullness. Get out more, talk to people you fancy, just stop banging on
On 14 Feb 2017 at 8:56pm Go away dullards wrote:
One has to wonder whether these men have partners, frankly they are the most boring, self opinionated dullards that i have come across. I work for an accountants so that is some achievement. Well done lads...zzzzzzzzzz
On 14 Feb 2017 at 11:06pm Pedro wrote:
Only one more boring thing that accountants and us political blabber-mouths....and thats anonymous dreary forum whingers complaining about people discussing stuff they don't want to discuss. You know who you are - now beat it, go kick rocks.
On 15 Feb 2017 at 8:56am Thatch wrote:
MorningPedro, you will also find facts across the internet backing Farage's comments up, it comes down to who you choose to believe, in your case a Labour MEP.
I am neither a UKIP or Farage fan. I think through imigration they took the whole debate down route 1.
I have wanted out since John Major signed the Maastricht Treaty in Feb 1992. If ever their should have been a referendum it should have been prior to Maastricht and it should have involved the population of all member countries . Remember the good people of the union have had a vote on political union, if they did i think it would be pretty obvious what the out come would be.
My position is clear, i have never wanted a European Superstate, that for me is what it is all about.
I admire yourself and the Greek for making it clear that you do want a European Superstate. This ideology , for me would be the only cretitable reason for voting Remain.
Pauls argument was all about the economy , in other words his pocket. The economy goes up and down, it allways has down and all ways will do, the economy was not a creditable reason to vote Remain.
I want a Union that involves independent states, coming together to share common intrests such as trade, cultural exchange and reaserch. There is no need for political union.
Check it out here »