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Cat Problem

 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 10:23am Pest Control wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me, that when you post an opinion on here, everytone jumps to the conclusion that it is your very reason for being and that you can't possibly have an opinion about anything else. For example, Hoist and Phil seem to think that because I don't like the fact that cats are left to freely crap in other peoples gardens, I am therefore unconcerned about the litter and mess that human beings leave in the roads of Landport! How the hell do they come to that conclusion???? of course I am, but what possible link is there between those two scenarios? Hoist then goes on to say MY argument is nonsensical !!!! OK then, perhaps an explanation as to why my argument in relation to cat crap is nonsensical, without just saying I am wrong without backing it up, and then introducing completely ungrounded accusations that I don't care about totally unconnected issues in order to divert the argument away from the point at hand. So come on Hoist, Phil, explain to me why I should be happy about cat sh1t on my lawn, and why you believe I am being in any way nonsensical or unreasonable in complaining about it. I wait with bated breath......
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:06am Hoist wrote:
Ok Pest Control - don't get your knickers in a twist.
Animals need to go to the toilet. They just do, or they die. They donā??t understand our property laws so they go somewhere on their own territory. When I had cats I tried to reduce any nuisance by providing litter trays. But really, they are not the only creatures that will crap on your garden. Seagull crap on your car is not fun either.
Cats are relatively harmless animals (unless you are a bird or a mouse) and I have had the pleasure of sharing my life with some really great ones. I didnā??t breed cats or buy kittens from a breeder. I rescued them all.
Cats can bring real benefits to the people who own them. They have been proved to reduce stress and depression and they make great companions for people who might otherwise be very lonely.
I donā??t know what you think that cat owners should do to stop the miniscule nuisance to you? Keep cats in doors? This would be extremely cruel. Put them on a lead. Ditto. Euthanize the lot?
Human beings, on the other hand, are vile vermin. We destroy everything we touch and we are fast putting ourselves in the position of having a very unpleasant planet to live in.
Added to this we are making other species extinct at a really alarming rate. Domestic cats are one of the few animals that still thrive under our governance of the planet. I donā??t know about you, but I donā??t want to live in a world without animals but thatā??s the way we are going.
Whoever it was who made a point about cats killing birds has a point ā?? but only a very very tiny one. Compared to what human beings are doing to the planet (including bird life) it seems laughable to blame cats.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:26pm Pest Controller wrote:
One can legally shoot a cat provided it is on you property at the time and it does not unnecessarily suffer. High powered air rifle shot to the head from no more than ten metres.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:35pm Absolute bowlax wrote:
You can't legally shoot anything on your property, certainly in residential areas. What utter nonsense
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:38pm Mystic Mog wrote:
PC you are incorrect about the shooting cats. An ex-work colleague came a cropper when he did this. Not only was he prosecuted but also in the national press. He deserved it.
Humans are the vermin not the animals.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:50pm jrsussex wrote:
Hoist - Your final paragraph makes a comparision between cats and the human race, where does that come from? Two very different subjects, there is an old saying 2 wrongs do not make a right.
I am an animal lover and as such am very aware that a cats predatory habits are there when it is born, but unlike its big cat cousins it is among that group of animals that kill for fun, not the necessity to eat and survive. It can't help it, if anybody is to blame it is mother nature. That does not however stop, or should not, a person having an opinion on the matter.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 1:07pm Cat lover wrote:
People who "own" cats have a responsibility for that cat, and therefore for where that cat deposits its poo. People who "own" children, likewise have a responsibility for the child and where it's poo is deposited.
In both situations, the producer of the pooh has no concept of right and wrong, property laws, toilets etc. etc. etc.
A cat owner will argue (and they have in previous threads) that it is quite acceptable to allow their cat to poo wherever it wants, without assuming any responsibility for the poo, or the cats behaviour. Following the cat owner logic therfore, it should be acceptable to take a baby to your neighbours garden for the purposes of pooing.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 1:37pm Pest Control wrote:
There you go again Hoist... just as I expected, you couldn't do it could you. Once again you are ignoring the discussion about whether we should put up with your cats mess on our lawns, and diverting it once more into one about the damage that human beings are doing to the environment. I quite agree that this is deplorable, however it is quite irrelevant to the discussion. What have humans got to do with what your cat leaves behind on my lawn? Lets just put this into simpler terms for you. It is unpleasant to have any kind of animal/bird mess in your garden (in quantities where it is noticeable - ie larger mammals and possibly seagulls as you mention them). Seagulls, foxes, badgers etc. however, are wild animasl. Cats are not. Attempting to excuse the habits of your pet because seagulls do it is pretty pathetic and frankly makes you appear all the more selfish in the eyes of non cat owners. If every time you went to mow your lawn you found a disgusting, stinking pile left by your neighbours dog you would pretty soon get fed up with it and feel quite within your rights to complain.
As for your comments about the extinction of demestic cats, well just bear in mind that ALL domestic cats are the product of human interferance, and without humans they simply would not exist. It is also quite well documented what devestating effects an introduced 'harmless' species can have on indiginous wildlife (eg. goats in Galapagos, cane toads in Australia, grey squirrels here) Whilst you claim the impact of cats on wildlife is minimal, without that human intervention it would of course have been non existant. (now you are going to tell me that tigers kill animals so its OK for your cat!)

Once again, why should I not get annoyed with cats crapping in my garden?
and why my argument is nonsensical.

I would also like to know by the way, seeing as you use this as some kind of defence, why it is any more cruel to keep a cat inside, or an a lead, than it is to do so for dogs? Dog owners (or most at least) will also pick up their dogs mess and dispose of it responsibly.

I look forward to your enlightening response.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 1:57pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
You won't get one PC, in my experience cat owners/lovers have incredible tunnel vision and cannot/will not consider the fact that cat crap on your lawn is not acceptable. Perhaps they should be given the same responsibility given to dog owners. "What are we supposed to do to stop our cats crapping on other people's property" I can hear it already! Perhaps they should stop putting this onto other people to make the choice and work out themselves how to stop them. The problem is not minuscule.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 2:41pm Unbiased view wrote:
I am not a cat owner, nor an owner of any pets of any kind. Now, most of my neighbours do have cats and most of them wander in and out of my garden often. I have to say I have never come across cat poo on my lawn. (and I have a fair sizes lawn which is fairly secluded.) What I have seen , is 2 or 3 cats, at different times, dig holes in my rose beds, poo in the hole and cover it back over after. I don't know if this is the norm, or whether the owners have trained them to do this, but I have to say I was impressed. The roses seem to like it too. Am I just lucky?
 
1
On 2 Mar 2011 at 4:35pm Hoist wrote:
Well - I was trying to be reasonable but you have still not provided a reasonable solution to your problem. Cats are not dogs - I realise that you don't know much about animals but it's true. It simply isn't possibe to take them for walks on a lead and it is cruel to shut them up.
You don't think that I've answered your questions so here I go answering them yet again. You should not get annoyed with cats pooing in your garden because your position is ludicrous, untenable and hypocritical. Look up these words if you don't understand them. Also look up 'perspective' (and then try and get some.
Human beings don't own the world - they just think they do. The legal framework that says that one bit of land is mine and another yours was not agreed to by cats. For this reason your argument is nonsensical.
Complaining about cat poo is like the directors of BP complaining that their breakfast plates are dirty. It may be true, but, in the scheme of things - so what?
I didn't say anything about the 'extinction of demestic cats' as you put it.
You guys really have a screw loose about this, but I do have a solution for you -
A long while ago I went to view a house I was thinking of buying. The owner's son obviously felt the same way that you do and the whole garden - about 120 ft of it, was covered in netting to keep the cats off. Rather strange, I though, but obviously not to him. Mind you, he was over 40 and still living with his mother and had an interesting display of p*rn*graphy on his bedroom walls. Maybe you guys could all be mates.
You people are obviously extremely unpleasant - I guess that you have to keep your views to yourselves normally to stop people recoiling in horror so you get a kick out of being vile anonymously.
Do you all live in Landport? I want to know where to avoid.
I'm bored with you now.
Unbiased view - you're right, it is a non problem cooked up by those without a life.
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 4:37pm Mystic Mog wrote:
Most cats dig and bury their poo. Elderly cats may be less diligent.
PC you are quite right that it is our fault that there are so many domestic cats and other pets. However to punish the cats is wrong.
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:15pm Fin wrote:
Poor cats getting the blame again. Some people put a black cat scare-off ornament in their flower bed to stop cats pooing there. From the garden centre. Get one of them!! Cats can't be told where to poo!! I have a cat, elderly, who doesn't venture away from my garden and anyway he always buries his poo. As for the litter on the streets from humans, they KNOW not to throw litter and yet they still do. How the hell can that compare to cat crap? Seems to me there are a lot of cat haters here. Miaoooowwwwwwwwwwwwww
2
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:24pm Flat wrote:
Well at least some of you can afford, or get paid benefits to live in, a house with a garden. If I had a garden I would welcome all cats to come and crap wherever the hell they want. In all the years when I have lived somewhere with a garden, I have never found cat (or any type of) poo sitting on the lawn.
Perhaps you should find something more worthwhile to focus your bored anger on?
2
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:31pm Phil wrote:
You're right,Flat, a whole thread on cat poo is not worthwhile and there are many more interesting topics to talk about. However, these people complaining of cat poo are not the ideal neighbour to have! Can you imagine if you had a cat and they lived next door. They would be knocking on your door complaining of cat poo. My garden doesn't have any cat poo in it. I have a dog so I am forever cleaning up after her as I don't want to walk in the garden and tread in dog poo. Cats have dignity and bury theirs until they can't smell it. Can we all move onto something else please?
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:37pm Hoist wrote:
Agreed Phil - I would like to know where these guys are though. I'm house hunting and don't want to end up next to them.
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:46pm Pest Control wrote:
Thanks Mystic, although at no point have I even suggested punishing cats. I am just attempting to get Hoist to consider the fact that other people might not be so happy about other peoples cats leaving a mess in their garden as he/she obviously is.

As it happens Hoist, having taken an interest in animals and wildlife for around 45 years, so I do probably know more than the average person about animals, but that is by the by. I simply asked why it was any less cruel to lock a dog inside, and put in on a lead when outside. You simply say it isn't possible to treat a cat in the same way but give no reasons.

You then go on to say " You should not get annoyed with cats pooing in your garden because your position is ludicrous, untenable and hypocritical". Apart from the fact that this is no answer to my simple question, you cannot just make ridiculous statements like that without providing any reason or evidence for making it. I cannot see anything ludicrous, untenable or hypocritical about not wanting sh1t in my garden !!! Still, perhaps you are in to that sort of thing.

You go on to say that you have a solution for us, but then fail to actually give one.

You accuse me of being unpleasant and vile, although I really cannot see anything in any of my posts that is either of these things (in fact if anyone is being so then I suggest it may actually be you)

You then go rambling on about a 40 year old man living with his mother with pornography on the walls! Where is the relevance in that?

I do not live in Landport either, but again cannot see any connection or reason why you should think I did. Have you got something against people that do?

So, after another rambling load of nonsense, you have still spectacularly failed to answer the question. It is obviously too difficult for you to do so without going off on a tangent, so perhaps you could answer this one with a simple yes or no...

If I had a dog and lived next door to you, would you be happy for it to regularly come into your garden and cr@p on your lawn and flower beds?
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 6:12pm Unbiased wrote:
Pest Control, cats 99% of the time (I googled it, how sad, I know) bury their pooh so it can't even be smelt. You must be very unlucky to have a lawn full of it. Do you live next door to a cattery for the senile and infirm cats of the world perchance?
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 6:31pm Hoist wrote:
For lord's sake man/ or woman! Give it up! A cat is not a dog and cannot be treated in the same way. If you could do this with a cat, people would be doing it already. You know nothing about animals after 45 yrs clearly. Horses are different to dogs too - have you noticed? In your view, London zoo would just put all the mammals in the same enclosure - well they're all mammals - innit.
That is why your position is ludicrous and untenable. I think it is clear why you are hypocritical.
Do read my post again - I can't be bothered with you.
Going for dinner now.
1
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 9:27pm Pixxie123 wrote:
I have to say that disposable nappies are more of a problem than a bit of cat poo. Disposable nappies are left on the roadside or disposed of with house hold waste, they take a millenium to biO degrade if they ever do)
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:38pm Phil wrote:
I agree with Pixxie123. And do you know what I saw on the side of a road? A used sanitary towel. Ughhhh made me feel sick.
 
 
On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:38pm Phil wrote:
I agree with Pixxie123. And do you know what I saw on the side of a road? A used sanitary towel. Ughhhh made me feel sick.
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 8:06am 'ere be monsters wrote:
Do you not think it is incredible that Hoist can only justify his stance with ludicrous comparisons? BP directors dirty plates!! Now he's got the rest of you at it, disposable nappies and sanitary towels. Laughable. For hoist to suggest that all people who are not great cat lovers have porn over their walls is just another example. There are many examples of perverts and nutters who are cat lovers. Resorting to childish insults and casting aspersions on someones literary prowess are also signs of difficulty in forming a coherent argument. For every argument that land ownership was not brought about by cats can be equally applied to dogs, yet dogs are expected to respect others property.
2
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 8:37am Cat poo wrote:
This forum is pants. A bloke makes a legit complaint about cats cr@apping on his lawn and gets nothing but childish abuse.
Cats are not harmless, they kill a lot of wildlife, newts, frogs, birds, small mammals etc..and the one that craps in my flower beds does not bury it..
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 9:12am Cat lover wrote:
Hoist, please can you answer the following questions, as you seem such an expert on this issue:

1/. What makes it impossible to put a lead on a cat?
2/.You say yourself that shutting up cats is cruel. Most cat owners that I have ever come across shut their cat up at night. Should I therefrore be reporting all of these cat owners to the RSPCA for cruelty to cats?
3/. Why should dog owners be responsible for their dogs fowling, but cat owners not? (eqully why should horse riders be allowed to let their horses crap in the road witout clearing it up, same as people dropping litter)
4/. Which part of allowing ANY animal to crap in someone elses garden do you find to be acceptable, responsible and neighbourly behaviour? (please do not go on about wild animals / birds etc., nobodyhere is claiming responsibility for these and as such noone is "allowing" them to crap in gardens)
5/. What is ludicrous, untenable and hypocritical about not wanting cat poo in one's garden?
6/. You state that "Human beings don't own the world - they just think they do". Using this same logic cat keepers do not own their cats. Would it be acceptable for people who do not like cats pooing in their gardens to catch the cat and take it to an animal resue centre as an un owned stray animal?
7/. Or would that be stealing?
8/. Your "solution" to the problem, is for people who don't want someone else's cat in theie garden, to cover their garden in netting. Surely as a responsible and neighbourly cat owner the onus should be on you to stop your cat pooing in other peoples garden, and should therefore be covering your garden in netting to stop the cat getting out of your controlled environment?
responses to you.....
"You people are obviously extremely unpleasant - I guess that you have to keep your views to yourselves normally to stop people recoiling in horror so you get a kick out of being vile anonymously."
:- No, I am quite open about the fact that I hate cats, I would be quite happy if they were banned. Yes people do sometimes get offended by my dislike for them. No I have never hurt a cat myself and wouldn't as that would be cruel, which I am not. I do however like dogs!
Do you all live in Landport? No.
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 10:06am Anne Robinson wrote:
Hoist, you are the weakest link, goodbye
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 10:38am Cat poo wrote:
What's up Hoist£ Cat got your tongue????
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 11:31am Pest Control wrote:
Hoist has made it quite clear that he/she has no sensible points to make, just vain attempts to put together an argument based on a string of completely unrelated statements and insults. This includes the completely ridiculous assertion that I can't know anything about animals because I don't know the difference between cats and horses ! - and that makes it OK for his/her cat to crap in my garden? What a bizarre individual they must be to make such childish comments to 'prove' me wrong (in their mind at least). And this coming from someone who pretends that cats don't kill other animals - well, only a few, but that's OK! Appropriate menawhile that they should mention London Zoo too, because the last time I went there, I seem to remember that all the cats were in enclosures. Funny that, I thought it was cruel and impossible to do that to a domestic cat, let alone a wild one!
Whether it be cat, dog, horse, endangered species or human, you cannot get away from the fact that there is nothing pleasant about finding their excrement in your garden, and certainly no reason to be happy about it.
An interesting statistic Unbiased, I don't know where they got those figures from, but certainly not from around where I live - and no, I do not live near a cattery! Even the stuff that is buried can still give you a disgusting surprise when you are planting or digging. It would be interesting to know, if I found out who owned the cats in question, and where they lived, whether I would be within my rights to collect up the mess and throw it into their gardens? I am guessing that they would not like that much, and I would be the one getting into trouble.
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 11:36am FeildFairy wrote:
"Humans are the vermin not the animals" , Ha Ha you aren't related to Gadaffi are you Mystic Mog?
 
1
On 3 Mar 2011 at 12:26pm Hoist wrote:
See you have been busy while I have been doing what is generally known as 'having a life.'
Do read my previous posts for answers to your repetitive questions.
Have to go now as I am going rabbit racing at lingfield before saddling up my monkey and going for a ride.
In answer to your only real question - no I wouldn't mind at all if a cat did a poo in my garden.
Humans are the vermin and you are great examples of the human race.
 
1
On 3 Mar 2011 at 12:30pm Hoist wrote:
Just one final point before I go off to my ferret dressage class -
I do hope you guys will keep the names you have used here on future posts so that I know who to avoid. Somehow don't think you will though. Ashamed?
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 1:30pm cat poo wrote:
nope...agotist
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 1:34pm Cat lover wrote:
Hoist,
OK, if you have answered my questions, numbered 1 - 8 above, I am obviously too stupid to have noticed the answers in your various posts above. Perhaps you could help stupid old me by cutting and pasting your answers, numbered 1-8 into a new post for me.
Thank you very much in advance for being so kind and considerate as to help me out.
If your new post does not appear, I think all involved in this post will take that as your acceptance of failure to convince anyone that your point of view on this topic has any relevence to anyone.
(hey - won't it be really funny when Hoist says "glad to see you admit you are stupid" snigger snigger !!!!!!!!!!!!!)
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 1:45pm Pest Control wrote:
Sorry if this appears twice...my first attempt disappeared...
Yes I have read your previous posts Hoist, but fail to see where the answers are that you continually claim to have given. Going off on a tangent about totally unconnected matters does not constitute an answer, or a coherant argument come to that. Meanwhile, the only straight answer that you have given, namely "no I wouldn't mind at all if a cat did a poo in my garden", I can only assume was in response to my question about a dog - and you have the temerity to accuse me of not knowing the difference!

Ashamed! why should I be? Amused by you ignorance yes, dumbfounded by your selfishness yes, unimpressed by your insults yes, but ashamed? no.

So, Hoist by name and Hoist by nature (by your own petard), and surely no coincidence that it is an anagram of 'O Sh1t'
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 1:51pm Pest Control wrote:
Your first name isn't 'Full' is it?
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:00pm Hoist wrote:
I have already answered you please try again to find the answers to my questions or tell me exactly why you don't think that they've been answered. Points 1 - 8 please. Try to keep it relevant.
No you are not drawing me into your silly games - I have a life and one that is not defined by cat poo - you on the other hand...
And do learn the difference between cats and dogs. My posts have been about cat poo - which is different to dog poo. Why are you going on about dog poo? Oh lord can you really be so sad! Go to the dog poo thread...
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:28pm Hoist wrote:
Oh go on then as I have a few minutes before taking my dolphins out for a walk.
1/ Yawn - to illustrate
h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3lppfJv8IQ or h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYFykLBcsNo&feature=related
There's always the exception to the rule of course - like dancing dogs.
2/ I can keep saying this however - This is from the RSPCA
"For an active animal like the cat, an indoor environment can become predictable and boring, and can lead to stress, inactivity and obesity. So itā??s important that you provide your cat with everything it needs."
3/ Because anything else is impractical and ludicrous. As said before.
4/ All parts of it obviously- Once again - I'm sure you can get over it as it's not a big problem. If you are sane.
5/ Most people use the term 'adopt'. And that's a funny kind of logic you've got there. Do you not understand 'logic' either? Hint - longman describes it at 'a formal method of reasoning, in which ideas are based on previous ideas'. Do you understand the difference between cats and humans? Given this 'logic' the cat would not be stray because no one would own it.
6/ That would be kidnap and would be dealt with by the police. It would also be a disgusting thing to do and very frightening for the animal - right up your
cowardly alley.
7/ Yawn - as I said above: 'Human beings don't own the world - they just think they do. The legal framework that says that one bit of land is mine and another yours was not agreed to by cats. For this reason your argument is nonsensical.'
8/ Again - This would be impossible to do while being fair to the animal. Besides it seems by this thread that only creepy people with no lives give a tiny one for this minor inconvenience, so I don't really care.
BTW - you haven't said what name you normally use - my questions really don't get answered.
So, really really hoisted you there pal - you really really are silly aren't you? You should have let me stop when I wanted to.
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:36pm cat lover wrote:
Hoist,
I have read all of your posts again and I can not find anywhere where you have stated what makes it impossible to put a cat on a lead, please clarify.
You have not advised me if I should or should not be calling the RSPCA with respct to cat owners shutting up their cats overnight.
The question of dog poo is used as an analogy, same as you used dirty breakfast plates as an anaology. So should cat owners not be responsible for their animals behaviour?
I don't have time to list every one of my questions again. Suffice to say, I have not seen answers to any of them
I am not sure what you mean by "points 1-8 please" They are questoins that you are avioiding answering, because you know that your answers will make you look rather silly!
Oh, and which of my questions are not relevent?
I think we all know the diference between cats & dogs. your posts have been about cat poo and BP bosses breakfasts, where is your relevence?
1
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:39pm Hoist wrote:
Pest Control you said
"You accuse me of being unpleasant and vile, although I really cannot see anything in any of my posts that is either of these things "
You also said
"One can legally shoot a cat provided it is on you property at the time and it does not unnecessarily suffer. High powered air rifle shot to the head from no more than ten metres"
Are you mad?
Do I need to say more?

 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:40pm Pest Control wrote:
Read the posts properly then, and you would know exactly why I asked about dogs. I can't believe you are squirming around like a schoolchild trying to score points. You struggle to put together a sentence that makes sense - read the first one in your last post and tell me who is asking and answering the questions. If you think you have answered Cat Lover's questions meanwhile, then why not do as he asks, and repost those same answers making it obvious which ones your alleged answers refer to. If you could do that, I am sure we could all go away happy, but of course you can't can you, because you know as well as we do that you haven't answered any of them. God knows why you are asking him to do it, when the whole point is that you have not given the answers. Do you actually know what you are talking about or even think about it before you say it?

Try to keep it relevant you say!! ha ha, do me a favour, talk about black pots and kettles. The reason I mentioned dogs was because you are abviously so in love with cats poo that you can't see the problem with it. I therefore asked for your thoughts on dog poo. Completely relevant, unlike most of the stuff you have wittered on about.
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:40pm Hoist wrote:
Ha ha cat lover he he he he
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:41pm Hoist wrote:
Look above you nits
 
 
On 3 Mar 2011 at 3:47pm Pest Control wrote:
Hoist, there you go again, you write in a post addressed to me, and I quote
"You also said "One can legally shoot a cat provided it is on you property at the time and it does not unnecessarily suffer. High powered air rifle shot to the head from no more than ten metres"
Are you mad?
Do I need to say more? "
I did not say anything of the sort. As I have said, read the posts properly.
Am I mad?, you better ask yourself that question, and no, you don't need to say anymore, I can't bear reading any more of your drivel today.


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Why not start another one


 

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