On 3 Jan 2021 at 9:57am janet street preacher wrote:
So Boris now says there is no doubt in his mind that schools are safe.
The only way that can be true is if all the scaremongering is lies or at the very least ridiculously over-exaggerated.
On 3 Jan 2021 at 4:57pm Tom Pain wrote:
Children don't seem to get it, or at least have very mild symptoms. Boris won't lie, just be extremely parsimonious with the truth and use baffling statistics. Rather like Phizer's 95% relative risk reduction. The ACTUAL reduction is 0.84%
The risk of developing symptoms for everyone in the trials was 0.0088% and of those vaccinated 0.00044%. that's how to use statistics.
On 3 Jan 2021 at 5:15pm Biggles wrote:
Doris has been caught out lying so many times in the past one would be a complete fool to believe a word the bloody
bafoon ever says in the future.
On 3 Jan 2021 at 5:47pm Tom Pain wrote:
Number recrunch, risk for vaccinated 0.044% and for un vaccinated 0.88%
On 3 Jan 2021 at 11:13pm Formerly AC-T wrote:
"Safe" is a very elastic word. Safe for whom?
Schools may be safe for children, who seem to be mildly (if at all) affected by Covid, but are they safe for teachers?
And out of the 4 people I know who have been ill and tested positive for Covid, 3 of them caught it from their school-age children (the 4th is a paramedic, he believes he caught it from a patient).
On 3 Jan 2021 at 11:18pm IDM wrote:
I cannot help noticing that, even on the Government's own figures (ha ha), we will still be rolling out first jabs when the first in the queue will be due for their second. Then what happens? I will guess that the wait for your second will move from 3 months to God knows when. Or perhaps those far down the queue will just sink lower.
On 4 Jan 2021 at 3:09pm Tom Pain wrote:
In view of the fact that vaccines are usually developed and tested over ten to fifteen years it all seems remarkably quick to me. Add to that it is a completely new experimental, untried type it seems too good to be true.
On 4 Jan 2021 at 11:15pm Tom Pain wrote:
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency has revealed in a FOI request that the Covid 19 virus has NOT been isolated.
The DNA template used for the Pfizer vaccination was generated by a combination of gene synthesis and recombinant DNA technology. Basically a computer model not the real thing.
So to me that means the tests are looking for something similar to the actual virus that's causing all this distress because they haven't got a purified sample.
That leads to the question- How can they tell that there's a new super infectious version when they haven't got an actual template to compare it to?
They can't.
On 4 Jan 2021 at 11:43pm Basil wrote:
'In view of the fact that vaccines are usually developed and tested over ten to fifteen years it all seems remarkably quick to me.'
If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. What do you suggest while we're waiting? Permanent and total lockdown?
On 5 Jan 2021 at 1:04pm Tom Pain wrote:
It depends on how scared you are. Presuming you are under 70 you have a 99.82% chance of surviving IF you catch it. If you are over 70 with 2.9 other co morbidities you have a 94.6% chance of surviving. If those odds are too long for you it would be best to never leave your house. These figures are from America. It all suggests to me that this government is a lot more fascist than I thought and there's only one cure for that.
On 5 Jan 2021 at 1:34pm janet street preacher wrote:
I have heard there are moves afoot to not allow people out of lockdown until the have had the vaccine.
Has anyone else heard this?
On 5 Jan 2021 at 3:10pm Tom Pain wrote:
The wife of the UK vaccine deployment minister is owner director of new medical company, with 75+% shareholding, Warren Medical Limited. Incorporated 10 June 2020 as Zahawi Medical Limited before changing its name the next day. I wonder why?
I'm sure it's a theory Janet to make people demand a jab.
On 5 Jan 2021 at 11:31pm Basil wrote:
Tom Pain wrote: ' It all suggests to me that this government is a lot more fascist than I thought and there's only one cure for that.'
Fascist? I heard on Radio 4 this morning someone suggesting we needed fascism when we come out of this crisis, though of course he didn't realise he was saying that. He was asking for co-operation between the public, private and voluntary sectors. Exactly what fascism said it was working to achieve, end class war between employers and workers in 'the national interest'.
On 5 Jan 2021 at 11:58pm IDM wrote:
This isn't really my forte; but I'll throw something in.
I don't think it really matters how the vaccine was created - it's still better than nothing. It's true that you can't do a template comparison, The most persuasive argument for a Sars-Cov-3 (if I may call it that) is the sudden widespread increase in infection rates. This could be caused by an increase in the infectivity of Sars-Cov-2 or a sudden rate of non-compliance with guidance/law. I don't find either of these very likely.
On 5 Jan 2021 at 11:58pm IDM wrote:
Another failed post! I'll try again tomorrow.
On 6 Jan 2021 at 5:33pm Tom Pain wrote:
The sudden increase in infection rates OR the sudden increase in positive tests? It's not the same. There are false positives and people who test 3 times will count as 3 "cases" or "infections". Maybe more people are getting tested as the kits become more available and the panic propaganda hots up.
On 6 Jan 2021 at 7:26pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Doubling down on the old Talkradio/Julia Hartley Brewer expertise. Screw what front line medics say. It's all a hoax...everywhere. I won't take a vaccine as I don't want to become a 5g walking hotspot thankyouverymuch. GET BREXIT DONE!! 
On 6 Jan 2021 at 7:26pm Nevillman wrote:
I'm not sure it matters Tom. All I need to know is that a lot of people are getting it and for a number of them it seems to be a really nasty thing to catch. I understand that you think there has been a big over reaction to it but many people really might think that is an insensitive comment to make at the moment. What are you trying to achieve? We know you have fantasies about being Tom Paine who was happy to court unpopularity for the sake of what he saw as the truth but you are not Tom Paine. There will be lots of time for reflection once this is all over. All you can possibly achieve at the moment is to encourage people to run the risk of getting it.
I know you to be a sensible man. I wouldn't mind placing a bet that you are taking many sensible precautions at the moment yourself.
I would be the last person to restrict free speech so continue to say what you want but try to think about it a bit first.
On 6 Jan 2021 at 10:56pm Tom Pain wrote:
Well nev, who do you think you are and what are your fantasies? Shall I tell you? No, and I wish you had the decency to do the same instead of insolent speculation. I'm sure you're quite decent in real life but the toxic environment of this forum won't improve that way. Just for the record, I don't like Tom Paine. The short pamphlet, Rights of Man is readable, but to my mind nothing more than emotive rabble rousing Sun type cheap journalism. I think he was a manipulator. A customs officer in Lewes suddenly becomes a radical? Excuse me if I'm a little cynical.
Have you noticed how the lurgey is now called Corona virus by the media? Why the name change? How come Ferguson's predictions were taken seriously when he had a record of ludicrous, one could say deliberately malicious over exaggerations? Why is he still at it as a member of Nervtag advising the government. Why use the PCR test,which it's Nobel prize winning inventor said was useless for diagnosing disease? Why are all deaths WITH covid added to the deaths OF covid? If not to stoke up alarm? How obvious does it have to get before people smell a rat?. Having retired some years ago I've used some of my time studying the genesis of the UN and many of its component parts and it's not the idealistic organisation it purports to be. The WHO progenitors were mostly eugenicists who were a great influence on Hitler. I've studied Agenda 21and it's implications and if you think I'm just a "theorist", read it for yourself. I've read their plans and this overexaggerated pandemic fits in nicely with their horrible ambitions.
Reflections when this is over? It won't be over until it's stopped, so you'd better start reflecting now and hope you can stop it.
On 9 Jan 2021 at 11:37am Tom Pain wrote:
The Office of National Statistics figures for all cause deaths in England and Wales from 1990 - 2020 are rather grim reading. However they are much less disturbing than the malicious duplicity of the media. Thoughts of our mortality are unpleasant but must be faced and it's relieving to see that less people died last year than in 1990. Hard to believe when you see the hysteria whipped up over the latest in a long line of respiratory diseases. The figures go up and down over the years with a high figure usually following a low but they're all similar.It's not nice but that's the way it goes unfortunately. What's all the fuss about?
On 9 Jan 2021 at 5:18pm IDM wrote:
The lurgey is CoVid-19; I suspect that you are actually talking about the name of the virus.
What has the virus changed its name from? As far as I can remember it has been coronavirus (in popular usage) throughout. There are many coronaviruses - the correct name for the one troubling us is Sars-CoV-2 (used in the legislation), but no one uses that in normal speech. We now have a new mutation, but it is simply being called a variant of the original. Its technical name would never be used by a non-scientist; so to be comprehensible, we continue to use the name coronavirus.
On 9 Jan 2021 at 10:30pm Tom Pain wrote:
The pop name was covid in the beginning. Now it's coronavirus. You don't think it's significant. What about the figures?
So there's a variant, how can you tell, if the original was never isolated?
Follow the seance? Is this the first virus ever to mutate?
On 11 Jan 2021 at 11:15pm Basil wrote:
How amusing to see these arguments about the name of the virus. Now let me see, was it World War Two or the Second World War? It makes all the difference what we call it, doesn't it?
On 12 Jan 2021 at 11:08am Green Sleeves wrote:
Report out this morning that 2020 represented the biggest increase in excess deaths in the UK since World War 2, and specifically 1940 (the period of the Blitz) .
I'm not really sure what more can be said to those that keep downplaying this pandemic or describe it as a "seasonal flu". I suspect they probably need to catch COVID themselves, or someone dear to them, but I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.
These alarming statistics are made more so given the fact that the country has also gone into a lockdown 3 times to reduce further infections and various other strategies implemented (social distancing, masks, large sporting events held behind closed doors etc). Had we not, then the much maligned Professor Neil Fergusons (maligned by QAnon types) death toll of 250k would seem very plausible. Given that we are now losing about 1000 people a day, and we still have potentially the worst 2 months ahead of us and already over 80k dead....its really starting to look quite accurate. We could quite easily be at around 120-150k deaths by March. 150k dead from a "seasonal flu" in the space of a year, despite enormous efforts to reduce it.
On 12 Jan 2021 at 11:50pm Tom Pain wrote:
Look at the total mortality, England and Wales every year at the ONS for the past 30 years you scaremonger. The figures are higher for 1990 than last year! Get a grip you ghoul and wake up, you'll frighten the horses. Excess mortality is just the difference between summer and winter deaths, in case you didn't know.
On 13 Jan 2021 at 11:00am Green Sleeves wrote:
Wrong!! You'll have to imagine the Family Fortunes "incorrect" noise here. 
Total mortality in England and Wales reached 608k last year. Only 1918/19 was actually higher with 611k. These are ONS stats. This coincided with another "seasonal flu" back then, which I'm sure you would be one of the first people at the time to call as some sort of hoax.
On 13 Jan 2021 at 10:34pm Tom Pain wrote:
You're so good at telling me exactly what I would NOT say, I think I might follow your lead on this. Oh so you love the idea of everyone dying eh greenie,it will save the world from overpopulation. Far less people breathing out that evil CO2. etc etc I suppose you've been reading David icke in the guardian again,they're suited to each other. No doubt you're getting messages from Malthus who is alive and overpopulating Jupiter!
On 14 Jan 2021 at 8:44am Green Sleeves wrote:
Cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
On 14 Jan 2021 at 4:40pm Tom Pain wrote:
Going by the ONS statistics as reported on the BBC news web page which said figures were the worst since WW2, indeed the time of the blitz and very cold weather amongst other details. WHAT YOU FAILED TO NOTICE OR POINT OUT It was followed by - Taking account of the age and size of the population, the figures were only the highest of the past 10 years. What they chose not to mention was that they are only the 9th highest in the last 20 years.
That's the fact which you will studiously ignore for what I can only deduce to be an unshakable adherence to unthinking ignorance. Grunt, grunt.
On 14 Jan 2021 at 5:17pm Green Sleeves wrote:
The other notable statistic I pointed out was just total deaths (as it was something you mentioned before as you discredited "excess deaths", hence why i then used that following example), which of course didn't reflect the enormous population difference between 1919 and 2020, I thought that was pretty obvious. 608k deaths in 2020 compared to 611k deaths in 1919 are of course worlds apart, but there was no NHS back then, nor the huge medical leaps that usually occur every 100 years.
I'm certain that had COVID19 been going through the UK population back in 1919, it would be significantly more devastating than it is today per capita or however you wish to interpret the stats. That is surely a given.
On 14 Jan 2021 at 6:07pm Tom Pain wrote:
Going by the ONS statistics as reported on the BBC news web page which said figures were the worst since WW2, indeed the time of the blitz and very cold weather amongst other details. WHAT YOU FAILED TO NOTICE OR POINT OUT It was followed by - Taking account of the age and size of the population, the figures were only the highest of the past 10 years. What they chose not to mention was that they are only the 9th highest in the last 20 years.
That's the fact which you will studiously ignore for what I can only deduce to be an unshakable adherence to unthinking ignorance. Grunt, grunt.
On 14 Jan 2021 at 6:30pm Green Sleeves wrote:
It's a hoax! The great reset!!
On 15 Jan 2021 at 11:34am Tom Pain wrote:
Is the great reset a hoax? Does Klaus Schwab and his WEF not exist? I must have been fooled by the BBC and UN websites again!
On 15 Jan 2021 at 3:07pm Green Sleeves wrote:
They exist, but unfortunately so does coronavirus. I wouldn't lose sleep over it being a sinister plot for a new world order.
On 15 Jan 2021 at 5:59pm Tom Pain wrote:
Yes coronaviruses exist, but don't lose sleep over it, they've been around a long time. The thought occurred to me today - you're a cannabis enthusiast, yet the government holds that it's harmful. You and I are certain that it's not, in spite of all the official warnings. If youre so sure the gov is wrong about cannabis, couldn't it be wrong about Corona?
On 15 Jan 2021 at 8:26pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Dude. Covid19 has killed over 2m people in a year. I can't imagine cannabis in the space of humanity has taken even half that amount of people. Its a totally useless comparison in any case. Most "seasonal flus" that you speak of kill a fraction per year, and thats with well established vaccination programs. COVID19 would have taken an awful lot more lives had nothing been done at all, and we all just lived in bliss.
I get the appeal to be a contrarian, but I'm not of the view that the NHS is filled with actors/stooges pretending to be medics and fabricating it all by saying this is the worst health crisis they've ever encountered. It doesn't make sense, even if you think Prince Charles is actually the Prince of Darkness with his NWO Davos buddies. Plus it does help to have some grasp of reality, especially when you know people who have caught covid19 and suffered from it, and worse.
On 16 Jan 2021 at 10:39am Tom Pain wrote:
I looked at the WHO yearly figures for respiratory diseases and last year's was not unusual, you've got to stop visiting the Malthusian, it's racist and un- inclusive, let alone vibrant. Prince Charles!!! You just had to get your hero in somehow. Have you got a portrait of the Damp Prince on your wall? Next to the immortal Elvis, patron saint of the snide allusion. Still it deflects attention from the BBC figures doesn't it? How they say two conflicting things in one article is masterful double think. The shock horror headline, then the the prosaic facts that the superficial eye passes by and doesn't notice the contradiction.
Talking of contradictions,it's amusing to see you, famous for your disparagement of the old, suddenly desperately concerned for their welfare these days. Hypocrisy is too mild a word for it. The culture of critique doesn't need consistency of content though, does it? Just continual negativity. Then , there's all those gammon who are the backbone of the NHS.... suddenly they're your heroes!
It's a shame you couldn't have an intelligent conversation about cannabis but I should have known you would steer it in such an inane direction.