On 6 Jul 2015 at 2:49pm JillG wrote:
I know the trolls will be going for me on this, but - bicycling west along Cliffe High St is legal! I was shouted at yet again today, by a motorcyclist this time, when I was cycling slowly, carefully and legally west; he, and all the other drivers who shout, drove past the blue bike contraflow sign at the entrance from Railway Lane - sorry if he didn't see it, so this is a post for info. Usefully, a recent front-page photo in the Sussex Express (see link) also shows the sign at the E end permitting cycling.
I'm all for shouting at the lycra lunatics who rocket down Cliffe in either direction, scattering pensioners and toddlers; but please, please, stop shouting at me.
Check it out here »
On 6 Jul 2015 at 4:03pm JillG wrote:
PS Shall I put up a similar-sized sign next to the 'bikes allowed' sign, saying 'Motorists will be killed and eaten'? Probably wasting my time....... :-)
On 6 Jul 2015 at 4:58pm Qwerty wrote:
I've had something similar, Jill - last time I did it someone in a 4x4 drove at me, literally at me, really quite fast.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 5:18pm JillG wrote:
Hello Qwerty - yes, me too, 4WD, more than once! What on earth....
And I shouldn't have put that bit about motorists, as most are lovely; I was just thinking what weird and wonderful signs we could put up next to the un-noticed blue bike contraflow sign. 'Tourists can be kissed at random here'. 'Anyone over 70 can demand gin'. 'Prizes for diving off Cliffe Bridge'. 'Opera practices at 3 pm daily'. ................................
On 6 Jul 2015 at 5:34pm neighbour wrote:
Same thing happens to me from time to time. Part of the problem seems to be that there is no enforcement at all (that I know of) of the prohibition on through traffic. Of course people need to use it for deliveries etc but the faster vehicles tend to be the ones passing through.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 6:46pm Troll wrote:
Just because it's legal it doesn't mean you should do it, as it is obviously dangerous. I mean, you wouldn't cycle along most of the A27 main carriageway would you? It's not illegal but it is stupid.
Get off and push.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 7:22pm JillG wrote:
Huh? So bikes are allowed (both ways) in the pedestrian-ish zone, with signs to say so, but cyclists should ignore that and all of them should walk, so that they won't be killed by cars driving down Cliffe High St. Ummmmmmmmmm
On 6 Jul 2015 at 7:25pm Sussex Jim wrote:
You are allowed to cycle west along Cliffe HS; but common sense must prevail. Mrs. Sussex was driving out eastbound quite legally having visited Argos last year- a cyclist going the "wrong" way stopped and confronted her instead of simply moving to the left to let her pass.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 7:57pm belladonna wrote:
They should have deliveries and collections in Cliffe High Street between the hours of 8-10 and 4-6 only. Works in Hastings - and oher towns with pedestrainised areas.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 8:19pm Shanks wrote:
As a pedestrian, I'm far more concerned about cars and lorries (1 to 10 tonnes) even going at 20mph through Cliffe and scattering people out of their way. If I get hit by a bicycle (around 100kg) doing 15mph, I probably won't suffer serious injury but the rider is likely to come off and get injured too.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 9:00pm Paul Newman wrote:
Good point Shanks, most cyclists are also drivers ( I am both myself ) and there is no doubt in my mind about who is the bigger menace to society.
There is something about that Aldi carpark that turns people into asbo spawn but even the goodpeople of the Nevill seem to be fast asleep until they get to the main road.( I`m probably just as bad )
On 6 Jul 2015 at 10:57pm JillG wrote:
Yes, Sussex Jim, I'm embarrassed about the lycra-ites/ lunatics who give us all a bad name, and I'm so sorry that Mrs Sussex met one. Just as horrible as the drivers who - on half a dozen occasions now - have swung to the R to block me and shout at me. I really hope that we can all continue to negotiate and move around each other peacefully.
On 6 Jul 2015 at 11:58pm TDA wrote:
I'm a motorist and a cyclist.
When cycling down there have had one or two van drivers moaning that it's a one way street, I usually go with them to the sign outside the pet shop, soon shuts them up.
Of course 99% of drivers are fine.
Perhaps all this could be solved by a painted cycle on the ground...?
On 7 Jul 2015 at 1:35pm Taff wrote:
What a shame most cyclists ignore the no cycling sign at the front to Harveys Way. What a shame some cyclists are smug to the point of arrogant that they feel they can be selective about which Highway Code item they choose to ignore or base an argument on. Do the same as other road users, there is less to go wrong!
On 7 Jul 2015 at 5:37pm ar10642 wrote:
"selective about which Highway Code item they choose to ignore or base an argument on". Taff, isn't that *exactly* what you just did? We're talking about cycling west along Cliffe High Street and you cherry pick some other alleged offence to deflect the argument?
Cycling is allowed along Cliffe High Street, both ways. The end.
On 7 Jul 2015 at 6:17pm Village People wrote:
Go West !
On 7 Jul 2015 at 6:39pm JillG wrote:
TDA - nice point about the signage, but I guess that the lack of painted-on-the-street signs is because it's a conservation area, which is fair enough. I did with trepidation ask the Council about signage on the last-but-two times that I was shouted at, and I gather that it's too expensive to put up a 'reminder' bike contraflow sign in the obvious place near Harveys. And it's true too that we don't want more official-type signage cluttering the view; but I would certainly contribute a tenner to a fund for a local artist/ sign-writer composing and putting up a characterful and friendly 'bikes both ways' guerrilla sign there. Anyone up for it?
I see that Taff is, as unfortunately some forum members do, lumping together harmless locals going carefully and slowly, obeying the law and giving pedestrians priority, and the lunatics who happen to be using a two-wheeled pedal-powered piece of equipment but who otherwise have nothing whatsoever in common with the local harmless cyclists. Give us elderly spinsters on bikes a break, Taff.
And Troll (somewhat understandably) compares Cliffe High St with the A27 as an equally dangerous place. Perhaps we should issue the tourists with high-vis jackets so that the cars don't hit them. Ooh, I've got an idea - we could Lewes-brand them and sell them on Cliffe Bridge - marketing opportunity......
On 7 Jul 2015 at 10:21pm Taff wrote:
As a motorcyclist I do have an appreciation of the vulnerability of two wheel transport. However those cyclists I have seen ignore the fact that the walkway off the Cliffs toward Tesco passing Harvey's is not for cyclists. Blind, dim or just plain arrogance. I will not repeat the detail of the elderly cyclist who crashed into my wife after going over Cliffe bridge westerly and meeting a car coming towards him. My wife was stood on the pavement outside Riverside before you start getting defensive. Not so much of an apology from him, sadly we had grandchildren with us else he would have been talked with. I speculate no good would have come from it though.it seems to me, from what I have witnessed that responsibility does not apply to cyclists.They can't all be by choice surely?
On 7 Jul 2015 at 11:09pm JillG wrote:
Taff, I'm so sorry for what happened to your wife, truly. And we won't discuss whether it was the fault of the car or the cyclist, who had a fraction of a second to choose whether to be hit by the car or to swerve (of course I wasn't there to witness it, so my comments aren't informed ones). Quite true about the first bit of the walkway, though it becomes a (successful) shared pedestrian/ bike path from Harvey's onwards. I'm sorry that you generalise again about cyclists's responsibility - that really is unjust, Taff - I'll be with you on blaming the lunatics, but a LOT of us harmless pedallers have a tremendous amount of responsible care for how we operate. But we get shouted at anyway........ unlike the cars on the whole.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 12:13am ar10642 wrote:
Taff, still not sure what your point is, especially as you "won't go into detail". Cycling is allowed westbound. That means (a) everyone needs to be careful and watch out for each other, and (b) drivers coming the other way who are too dim to read a sign need to STFU (and maybe not force oncoming cyclists onto the pavement)
On 8 Jul 2015 at 12:25am Taff wrote:
Jill, the car was a small slow moving vintage car, the cyclist was going too fast. Cyclists fault and very irresponsible for someone of 60ish.
We, why do so many cyclists put themselves in precarious situation and expect to win the inevitable contest? Got to have death wish?
I am a 60+ biker and weigh things up much quicker than cyclists seem to do and don't put myself in those situations. Cyclists seem not to do that because the law is on their side maybe but they could be fatally injured. No brained or what!
On 8 Jul 2015 at 8:22am ar10642 wrote:
Sounds like that 60 year old cyclist made a mistake that time which is unfortunate, and he should have apologised. That's not really relevant to anything else, and remember it's motor vehicles that do almost 100% of the actual killings and injuries so you'll want to start there if you're worried about safety. If you want to ban cycling westbound then write to the council about it. Also, nice to know how you weigh things up quicker than all of us, must have taken a long time to meet all cyclists personally. But if you fancy a taste of your own mass generalisations then motorcyclists have to be the biggest risk-taking t*ssers on the road, which is reflected in their massive KSI per mile figures and I remember this one time where blah blah blah and that's why all of them are the spawn of satan etc etc.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 9:53am Taff wrote:
'Kin 'ell AR. To be clear I have not said anything about banning cycling the wrong way along the Cliffe. Even those that do it on the pavement? And continue through the precinct without dismounting! I weigh things up quicker because I will generally be moving faster at most given times. What on earth made that so difficult to interpret correctly? Nothing to do with cyclists, just my road skills is all. There are arrogant motorcyclists too but you what, they have exceptional power under them to leave a danger situation, something a cyclikst cannot do so readily, whether they have put themselves in the situation or not.
By the way, parked motor vehicles kill no one, though I have seen some excetionally funny footage of cyclists, head down believing they are Eddie Mercx or the like until they ride staright into the back of a parked vehicle because they dont look where they are going. Its the way vehicle users drive, ride is what causes accidents. Just the same as there are no dangerous roads, only people using them in a dangerous way. Bored with this now as well, happy cycling.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 10:09am Jeffs wife wrote:
I think you'll find that between the cyclists and the motorist, it's mostly the car drivers who shouldn't be driving down Cliffe High St.
Take 5 minutes to stand on the bridge one day and count how many of the cars passing go straight out the other end to Cliffe Corner.
The signs are clear at the Riverside end that its access only for cars but there's absolutely no enforcement so all the Court Road residents use it as an easier route out of town than going up School Hill and down Marlet St and Little East St
On 8 Jul 2015 at 10:49am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
AR, it may be that cars, vans and lorries do "100% of the actual killings", but that doesn't mean that their drivers are responsible or at fault. Despite all the publicity about riding up the inside of lorries, in their blind spot, when they are turning left, cyclists still do it and still die because they do.
Would I have been responsible if I'd hit the cyclist who rode on to the pavement by Morris Road garage and then cycled across Winterbourne Hollow against the green light for cars coming up the hill? Or the one who rode down the twitten by the Lewes Arms and straight into the road without looking, across my path, as I was driving up it?
I think not.
I concede that you have a point about the recklessness of some motorcyclists but anyone who, like Taff, manages to reach 60+ is plainly not among them. Mr C-T has managed 36 years of motorcycling without an accident of any description, including many years as a motorcycle courier in London, a pretty high risk occupation.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 1:34pm Taff wrote:
Jeff's wife, the 20mph is not enforced either. What a waste of money that has turned to be and continues elsewhere in town.
As for ACTs red light ignoring cyclists and all the others that do this, you deserve what you get putting yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. You are irresponsible. I just hope when it happens it is not fatal and that you heal quickly but learn quicker.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 2:12pm ar10642 wrote:
ACT I never said that the motorists were always at fault, but whether at fault or not *almost all the danger* comes from having motor vehicles around. No motor vehicles = very little actual risk. So if you're going to get a bee in your bonnet about road safety, cycling isn't the place to start. Anecdotes (even more of them) are not data and I'm afraid the data doesn't support your arguments.
There are lots of sources for that, but here's just one.
Check it out here »
On 8 Jul 2015 at 3:26pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Wow, thanks for pointing out that if there weren't any motor vehicles, there'd be little risk of motor vehicle accidents. I'd never have worked that one out for myself!
On 8 Jul 2015 at 4:04pm Taff wrote:
All those pedestrians accustomed to looking just the one way and using their ears to cross Cliffe High Street for all those years, some probably still only do that, now suddenly, overnight in fact they try to cross over only to encounter near misses with a reasonably quiet moving cyclist travelling west. That wouldnt be the cyclists fault either would it AR? The cyclist being the vehicle on this occasion. I anticipate cycling smugness to debate against my question. Take effing responisibility for your own actions. Its not ALWAYS someone elses fault.
You beat me to the astounding proclamation ACT.
What about taking Clifrfe High Street back in time. Move the posts back to normal footpath width, re-introduce 2 way traffic and traffic lights at railway Lane. With cyclists not permitted on the pavement.(Sic) That will slow them down as well.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 4:06pm Taff wrote:
Maybe DILLIGAF is the better approach?
On 8 Jul 2015 at 4:20pm ar10642 wrote:
ACT: So you'll admit, then, that the usual anti-cycling rants about safety are barking up the wrong tree and it's the cars that are the real danger? Good.
Taff: "All those pedestrians accustomed to looking just the one way and using their ears to cross Cliffe High Street for all those years, some probably still only do that, now suddenly, overnight in fact they try to cross over only to encounter near misses with a reasonably quiet moving cyclist travelling west.".
It's been *years* since the two way cycling was introduced, and I've already said everyone (including cyclists) needs to look out for each other. That means riding slowly and carefully. Anyone who doesn't do that is a tw*t. None of that gives car drivers (who should *only* be there for access) the right to shout at cyclists who are not breaking the law.
"What about taking Clifrfe High Street back in time. Move the posts back to normal footpath width, re-introduce 2 way traffic and traffic lights at railway Lane. With cyclists not permitted on the pavement.(Sic) That will slow them down as well."
Old bloke wants things to be how they used to be. Shocker.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 6:09pm Taff wrote:
To repeat, just in case this old bloke forgot already,..........DILLIGAF.
On 8 Jul 2015 at 10:28pm Taff wrote:
As its on topic. Returning from Brighton 45 minutes ago, approaching the prison traffic lights indicating to turn left, just turning left in fact a cyclist came through a red light to cross toward Winterbourne. Had lights on but no reflective items, side on he was barely visible. Someone coming up behind me to go straight into Lewes could easily not have seen him. Cyclists, your wear what protective gear you can but why offer yourself to danger in the first place?
On 9 Jul 2015 at 11:50am Belladonna wrote:
Let's go even further back in time and make Cliffe High Street horse and cart only! And pedestrians.
On 9 Jul 2015 at 12:32pm Taff wrote:
Horse poo to that extent would probably be considered a health hazard these days.
On 9 Jul 2015 at 1:56pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
All that horse poo would undoubtedly be gathered up in no time, to provide fertiliser for all the organic string farmers round here!
On 10 Jul 2015 at 1:07pm Taff wrote:
Too many cyclists would prevent access to the poo. Whichever way you want to look at it! teehee.