On 6 Sep 2021 at 10:23pm Nanook of the North wrote:
I feel no sympathy at all for that growing number of high profile anti vax evangelists ,who vociferously and enthusiastically promote their nonsense and eventually get t very ill and die of Covid. I have more sympathy for the gullible idiots that believed these charlatans and met a similar fate, but in truth not an awful lot more.
On 7 Sep 2021 at 11:30am Green Sleeves wrote:
anti-vaxxers are often right-wingers who don't particularly like paying tax - so I guess at least they finally get value for their taxes by these hospital stays and treatments if they get covid bad. Seems a waste they don't get to try out the free vaccines though. They'd rather abstain and instead take animal de-worming tablets if they start to feel a bit rough.
On 7 Sep 2021 at 9:44pm Tom Pain wrote:
There's going to be a lot of worried footballers. Left wingers have nothing to fear, they just adore paying tax and always have a vaccination before going on the pitch. The legendary Bobby Charlton insisted on paying double tax on his earnings, they were real men in those days. Nanook, you're very sensible, I wouldn't waste my sympathy on them either, save it for someone who really appreciates it.
On 7 Sep 2021 at 10:12pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Footballers do pay extraordinary amounts of tax. Ronaldo will be contributing around 300k a week in income tax. He must feel so upset about his lot in life.
On 8 Sep 2021 at 1:40pm David Stanley wrote:
Its so easy to turn people against others. So many people are always hunting for an enemy to despise.
Loving your neighbours isn't easy at all.
On 8 Sep 2021 at 9:58pm Nanook of the North wrote:
70%of those in intensive care units are unvaccinated adults. That statistic says it all doesn't it.
On 9 Sep 2021 at 9:21am Tom Pain wrote:
You may be correct, he plays on the right, though not on the far wing.
On 9 Sep 2021 at 12:01pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@nanoon - yes, unvaccinated people (who are a minority in itself) are disproportionately ending up hospitalised, getting seriously ill and dying. Meanwhile, 3bn people worldwide have had at least one vaccine.
Also noted on the old anti-parasite drug ivermectin that one of the recent studies cited by anti-vaxxers frequently, has since been withdrawn as flaws, inconsistencies and fraud were noted.
I don't believe research should stop on finding more covid treatments to work alongside the successful and proven vaccines, but people in positions of influence should be cautious on promoting it (like Joe Rogan, for example, and infowars Alex Jones) as if its totally proven on stuff like ivermectin, as desperate people who are anti-vax, are not getting prescriptions by their doctors (rightly so, it hasn't been scientifically proven and determined yet) and resorting to buying it from very dubious sources, or in cases in the US....pet stores. Its no surprise that there have been spikes of hospitalisations of ivermectin poisoning in low vaccinated red/republican US states (who generally have become the most vaccine sceptical) as they're jumping on this bandwagon and taking medication designed for mammals significantly larger/different to humans. These red states are also getting covid infections and hospitalisations/deaths more as a result of shunning the vaccine.
Its hard to get through to some people. I just hope that even those who are so stubborn and would never admit openly to being wrong, could at least just get vaccinated on the quiet instead of paying through the nose for a cocktail of other unproven medicines and strategies. Again, I suppose if they are taking all sorts of medications, they are at least aware of the reality and dangers of the virus....they just don't want to touch something that is free and distributed by the government (and 3bn people ww). Its the typical right-wing response to "government" - not always unwise, but why resort to extreme alternatives?
On 9 Sep 2021 at 1:20pm LamDan wrote:
On a local level in the Lewes area of around 100,000 adults the data shows that we reached about 86% of that population having the first vaccination by middle of July. Since then that level of first vaccinations has hardly increased whilst the number of second vaccinations is catching up and is now at 80%.
This suggests that there may be about 14,000 adults resistant to vaccination for one reason or another. This is quiet a high number of people that could be putting extra stress on local health resources.
On 9 Sep 2021 at 1:52pm Green Sleeves wrote:
14k anti-vaxxers in Lewes area? Sounds like a great potential business opportunity for the local Pet Shops to start marketing their de-worming tablets aggressively.
On 9 Sep 2021 at 1:58pm Nanook of the North wrote:
@Green Sleeves LOL
On 9 Sep 2021 at 10:26pm Tom Pain wrote:
I had a look at a pdf - Public Health England- SARS-CoV2 variants of concern 22nd technical briefing and found the following about the Delta variant- There were about 220k cases of vaxed and the same amount of unvaxed. Unfortunately 1233 of the vaxed succumbed and 536 of the unvaxed as well. This is only the Delta variant and I'm not a statistician. I suggest you look it up yourself. There is a column labelled- unlinked- which baffled me maybe you can figure it out.
On 11 Sep 2021 at 11:40am Green Sleeves wrote:
Did they all succumb of ringworm infestation?
On 11 Sep 2021 at 8:20pm Tom Pain wrote:
Whistling in the dark
On 11 Sep 2021 at 10:18pm IDM wrote:
Be careful with this sort of thing TP. Perhaps one day all will be vaxed; so all the cases and deaths will be of vaxed.
On 12 Sep 2021 at 11:02am Tom Pain wrote:
I am being careful and alert which is why I looked at the PHE statistics; and find your last sentence inexplicable if not sinister.
On 12 Sep 2021 at 12:20pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Was it highlighted as a specific point of concern by PHE, or did you, the eagle-eyed, infectious disease, statistician and all-round expert only spot it? What does the rest of the document tell you? Do vaccines look like they're killing people more than protecting them? As i think that might have been picked up on by now, given these vaccines have been administered since April 2020. Was this all part of your own "sleuthing", or was this pointed out to you over on some anti-vax reddit thread? Perhaps Piers Corbyn, who is a scientist after all, gave you the heads up.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but I think your bias to find patterns that fit your narrative is probably overwhelming your senses and compromising your ability to grasp reality.
The proof really is the hospitalisation and death rates. If you're looking at that and seeing that 80% of covid19 deaths and hospitalisations are from the minority group of the 20% unvaccinated, and still believe that the vaccine is the biggest threat in all of this, then someone close to you needs to give you a big shake and throw some cold water into your face.
On 14 Sep 2021 at 11:00pm Tom Pain wrote:
Things like that don't get picked up by the Murdoch press or any press for that matter. The BBC and the guardian are sponsored by wild bill-i want to vaccinate the entire world-gates. There are 2 world news services that are now co- owned. Even Klaus Schwab said this is the mildest pandemic ever. The average age of people dying of pandemic is ABOVE the average age of death. Have you ever had a Hmm? moment? Wonder why the 1% got vastly richer and the 99% poorer in lockdown year? They were buildin
On 14 Sep 2021 at 11:01pm Tom Pain wrote:
brI would say that the pantodemic is overwhelming everyone's sense of reality, except of course the real far right who are making hay while the sun shines. My eagle eye, or more correctly owl overlord eye, if you please, has noted such philanthropic concerns as BlackRock et al hoovering up property like mad. "You will own nothing and be happy" (as long as you serve the landlord) as Klaus Schwab said. He also said that this was a very mild pandemic, by the way. In view of the fact that the averag
On 15 Sep 2021 at 11:26am Green Sleeves wrote:
You won't hear any argument from me over the rich disproportionately getting richer and the wealth gap widening. This has been occurring long before the pandemic, but its not unreasonable to think it may have accelerated it. To be honest, I think it must be ever so dull being one of these rich elites. Its like when you're playing some sort of strategy video game, but entered all the cheat codes to give you limitless funds and power.....there must be a similar hollow feeling inside them, as their only goal is to rack up more points (or create disaster/panic for ones own sick amusement, and eventual gain for "solving"). Perhaps they launch themselves into space with the next goal of taking over the moon/mars. Or they go "Jeff Epstein".
On 15 Sep 2021 at 8:09pm IDM wrote:
We need to add onto true anti-vaxers (those who avoid vaccines because they are harmful) non-vaxers (those who think vaccines are ineffective, so there is no point in having them). Given the current evidence, they will both be in trouble.
On 15 Sep 2021 at 8:39pm Tom Pain wrote:
On 15 Sep 2021 at 8:42pm Tom Pain wrote:
And what evidence is that? We'll see if that passes the censor.
On 15 Sep 2021 at 9:49pm Tom Pain wrote:
Blimey, my two old posts have popped up, truncated but unbowed. IDM- Neither of your options refer to the present situation. Personally, I'm ambivalent on the vax question; what I don't fancy is taking part in a vaccine trial for the flu,especially one using a new technique which the inventor says is inappropriate for its current use. Green one, you miss out their eugenics angle. They want to breed the perfect servants. Sir Francis Galton-Darwin is the man to read. I wish there was a term to describe his type other than sociopathic or psychopathic that didn't have censorious connotations. They seem to have no conscience whatsoever, so the result of their actions on other people doesn't affect them as long as they get their own way. They may not mean any harm but if it happens it's of no consequence. Of course some are malevolent but not all. That empty feeling you mention, to them would seem just the price they pay for being so amazing and brilliant. I think they are just ego- maniacs. This pantodemic with it's restriction of civil liberties is just the environment that nurtures these megalomaniac types and they seem to be in their element which bodes not well for you or I.
On 16 Sep 2021 at 11:33am Green Sleeves wrote:
Ugh, you give TP an inch and he takes a mile with eugenics and other wackadoodle stuff. I do sense though that the power is diminishing from the nation states, and instead much power is now transferred to gigantic corporations who are of course entirely unelected (unless being an Amazon Prime customer counts as a "vote"). Some CEOs will be naturally more greedy, selfish and sinister than others, and their wealth will only increase as governments pander to them, loosen working regulations, "smash" unions and shy away from taxing them more appropriately and fairly etc.
Space exploration is a good example. From superpower nation states (USA and the USSR) competing for the technical edge and sending people to the moon in the 60s and 70s, to today, where space programmes are slashed, and instead we "rely" on the likes of Musk, Branson and Bezos, the latter who even thanked his staff and customers for paying for his billionaire jolly. Suckers.
On 17 Sep 2021 at 2:20pm Tom Pain wrote:
Wackadoodle! Conspiracy theory! Galton and the eugenic society never existed,
Bill Gates snr is a myth, Bill jnr was immaculately conceived. Just get stoned and wish it all away.
On 17 Sep 2021 at 4:12pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Im sure one of your conspiracy theories will come true, and despite all of them probably being bogus nonsense, that one bullseye will be sufficient to perpetuate your contrarian tendencies. Its not too dissimilar from a gambler recalling only their last win.
Im not your enemy or an "Agent Smith"....Mr Pain....you just need to stop peddling nonsense with the expectation of being taken seriously.
On 17 Sep 2021 at 8:19pm IDM wrote:
TP 15 Sep - 21-49: I simply don't understand how my "options" do not refer to the current situation. Are you seriously suggesting that anti-vaxxers and non-vaxxers don't exist? I had formed the impression you at least fell into one of these categories.
On 17 Sep 2021 at 11:57pm Tom Pain wrote:
Well I'll put it country simple for you. This is an injection of a gene therapy. An experimental method never used before to treat respiratory disease. It does not contain an attenuated, or let's say weakened, bit of the virus to warn our immune system that it is harmful and to beware of it like all previous vaccines. They were all tested for years before being used on humans and this one has been rushed through in far less time- another difference between this and what is usual in what we know as a vaccine. So my contention is that it is not a matter of being unvaxed or antivax that is appropriate in this situation but whether or not one wishes to volunteer in a medical experiment or not. I hope this clarifies things for you. I would recommend videos by Dr Mike Yeadon who has spent his working life studying respiratory infections. He was head of that department for Pfizer and ended up as a vice president. I think he must know a lot more on the subject than me, you and greeny put together many times over.
On 18 Sep 2021 at 2:36pm Green Sleeves wrote:
So you have taken the non mRNA "gene therapy" vaccine instead then TP? I hear your concerns, but you have an existing alternative in the Astrazenica vaccine (and presumably others).
6bn jabs have been administred now of all vaccines over the past year....us gene therapy volunteers havent yet mutated into the walking dead. In fact, those vaccinated have been proven to end up in hospital considerably less. I guess we will know in 5 years time when you are fending us pfizer zombies off from your underground bunker. At that stage, im not sure what would be the preferable outcome...
On 18 Sep 2021 at 8:26pm Tom Pain wrote:
Latest PHE figures are showing that the majority of August and September "cases" are in the vaxed category. Check it out because your zombie remarks indicate that you're getting less sure of your self. I'm not sure about the AZ jab myself, is it or isn't it? I don't trust them. Listen to Dr Yeadon, he's got nothing to gain from speaking out. The opposite of the government's stooges.
On 18 Sep 2021 at 10:47pm Green Sleeves wrote:
90% of the adult population have had 1 vaccine already in the UK, with around 82% double dosed. It would come as no surprise that the number of cases of the newly infected are already vaccinated, given that only a tiny minority of the population haven't had a vaccine.
The covid wave earlier this year (Jan/feb) was seeing up to 2,000 people a day dying. This was high due to an ultimately unvaccinated population (the vaccine roll out was only really just getting going at that point). This most recent wave we have been fortunate to have a mostly vaccinated population. The peak deaths are around 10% (200 a day) of what they were in january/february, or indeed the march/april wave in 2020.
A recent report stated that out of the 52k covid fatalities this year, just 640 (or 1.2%) were double vaccinated.
So in answer to your inaccurate remark about my confidence in the vaccines, nope, I'm totally satisfied being part of this human "experiment" that you so ominously portray. 6bn jabs over the course of a year or more - i think we would be quite aware if there was going to be a long-term issue by now. You're being melodramatic once again.
On 19 Sep 2021 at 11:05am Tom Pain wrote:
I was as surprised as you that an anti parasitic concoction like ivermectin is so successful in treating the 'rona. The reason is that it acts as a facilitator for zinc to enter the infected cell and disable the pathogen. I suppose it could get rid of any worms you might have as a bonus too.
On 19 Sep 2021 at 11:38am Tom Pain wrote:
During the flu season people get the flu; which might account for the infections at the beginning of the year. As you say, vaccination wasn't widespread then and the reason why vaxed people are the majority of cases now is that they are the majority of the population, very true. I just have a problem with why take a cure that doesn't seem to work very well, makes you more likely to infect others with a high viral load concealed by lessened symptoms and appears to be stimulating mutations of the virus? Actually the word cure is inaccurate, the vax was never claimed to be a cure.If I were to volunteer to test a new medical intervention, I would check the results of previous experiments in the same field, especially when they came to animals and the longer term findings, which don't appear to have happened in this case.
On 19 Sep 2021 at 11:40am Green Sleeves wrote:
Im not as convinced as you are that ivermectin is effective as a treatment for covid. The overwhelming evidence shows the vaccine is far more effective, given that was its core intention, over an antiparasitic drug thats typically used to rid your bowels of tapeworm. I welcome more concrete evidence to support ivermectin as a complementary treatment alongside the vaccine.
You going to ask your GP for ivermectin if you catch covid? Please at least go down this route rather than stocking up at Pets at Home. Or maybe get a tapeworm and your GP will have no other choice but to prescribe you ivermectin.
On 19 Sep 2021 at 12:23pm Nanook of the North wrote:
Ivermectin is just another flavour of snake oil, unless of course you are a horse with worms.
Watch the video »
On 20 Sep 2021 at 12:14pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@ TP. The AZ Vaccine is non mRNA, its a viral vector based vaccine. If you are mainly concerned about the "experiment" mRNA vaccines, then the AZ (or whatever equivalent, like J&J) is the one for you. Its definitely not too late to get them.