On 5 Aug 2019 at 5:16pm Basil wrote:
When May's withdrawal agreement was rejected by te Commons three times we were told by the EU that was that, that there could be no renegotiation of the agreement. But I read now in the Guardian: 'Boris Johnson has no intention of renegotiating the withdrawal agreement and a no-deal Brexit is his “central scenario”, EU diplomats have been briefed following a meeting between the prime minister’s chief envoy and officials in Brussels.'
So let's get this straight: The EU has accused Johnson of being a naughty boy and having no intention of renegotiating the agreement when the EU itself has already made clear a number of times it has no intention of renegotiating the agreement. What a strange story it is.
On 5 Aug 2019 at 7:15pm Mark wrote:
I think that you might be under-thinking this, Basil.
On 5 Aug 2019 at 7:51pm Dreamer wrote:
As usual you are missing context. The backstop in its current form was introduced on the specific request of the UK negotiators. It meant the EU had to compromise and cross at least one of its red lines. Indeed, on the continent the fear is that the UK might abuse the backstop to maintain market access without actually being part of the club (BoJo's having and eating the cake...). But the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement meant the EU was willing to make that compromise.
No such movement from the UK. The problem is that voters were promised things that are mutually exclusive. Which is why they haven't been delivered. And they won't be delivered.
To this day Johnson fails to understand that walking away with no deal simply means that the same topics will be raised in trade talks again. But then without the simplicity of the Article 50 process. Under A50 only the EU institutions have to agree to a deal. After leaving, the National Parliaments will be involved as well...
On 6 Aug 2019 at 5:44pm Basil wrote:
I've read Mark and Dreamer's comments. Mark says nothing. Dreamer agrees the EU will not renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement rejected by the Commons. In what sense, then, is the EU justified in accusing the UK of having 'no intention' of renegotiating when the EU itself has already said it will not renegotiate.
On 6 Aug 2019 at 7:29pm Dreamer wrote:
The EU hasn't really complained. The withdrawal agreement was negotiated, the UK government of the time got substantial concessions from the EU (again: look at how big the concern on the continent is that the UK could abuse the backstop; something completely overlooked here), gave hardly anything, and then refuses to accept what was negotiated. Negotiated in part by the very people now loudly critising the result of that negotiation.
Make no mistake: with the exception of Tusk, the EU27 at this point want the UK to leave. The sooner, the better. They don't want "no deal", but they are better prepared for it than we are. And they are not bluffing.
On 6 Aug 2019 at 7:36pm Dreamer wrote:
More amusing is that now Little Mike G. is complaining that the EU27 are doing what they said: not renegotiating the deal that both sides previously agreed to. :-O
On 7 Aug 2019 at 3:48pm Basil wrote:
I love it. What you're dsying Drmaer is that the EU won\t renegotiate becuse they think they've got 'the deal'. In which case why are we accused of being unwilling to negotiate? The point is, because you agree with the neo-liberal EU project as a way of defending European capitalism (so much for 'internationlism' , you thin whatever the EU says is wonderful. What you don't realise is that some of us Leavers are socialists.
On 7 Aug 2019 at 11:45pm Dreamer wrote:
Basil, you keep claiming that the EU is complaining or accusing the UK of not wanting to negotiate. Where the truth is that they simply made an observation.
And please don't attempt speculate about my political convictions. You're miles off the mark.
On 8 Aug 2019 at 8:16am Nevillman wrote:
Basil. Are you hoping that by leaving the EU we will economically decline to the extent that there is a socialist Revolution in the UK? I fear you are very misguided. When we are forced into trade deals with America and elsewhere it will lead to unchecked capitalism. The rich will get richer and the poor poorer but it will not lead to your socialist utopia.
On 9 Aug 2019 at 9:32am Mark wrote:
There has to be a reason why the hard right of the Tory party are delighted about the prospect of No Deal. My guess is Chlorinated chicken for all and privatisation of the NHS and short term profit for a few.
On 9 Aug 2019 at 11:35am Bert wrote:
Did anyone seriously believe the UK would get offered a good deal from the EU on leaving ! If we did, there would be other countries queuing up to leave. Austerity is their master plan, and that's working well for them.