On 6 Oct 2008 at 9:00pm SHS wrote:
My prediction of 19th September still stands. 4000 OR LOWER within 12 months. Proof this government is wreckless and driving this country to destruction. Would you or I have spent so much, borrowed so much, bit and mauled the hand that feeds us and totally failed to prioritise? No. Did Blair and Brown? Yes. Long live the Lewes Pound.
On 6 Oct 2008 at 9:33pm MC wrote:
BTW. It wasn't this government that deregularised the financial markets.
The culture of debt was taken advantage of by banks *and* joe tax payers. If joe tax payer hadn't thought it quite so grand to borrow so easily the current crisis might not be so great.
Things are never simple and cannot be summed up in sound bites or knee-jerk sentences.
On 7 Oct 2008 at 7:59am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Thank you for saving me from pointing out that it was dear Mrs T who made it all possible, MC!
What is galling is that the bankers & traders who got obscenely rich as a result of criminally negligent lending policies and creative accounting will get to keep all their wealth, while those of us struggling along on average wages or less will be paying the tax bill for bailing out the banks for years. Next time I'm skint and they won't extend my overdraft, do you think the tax payer will bail me out?
On 7 Oct 2008 at 8:19pm MC wrote:
It is galling. Bankers will be first up against the wall in my revolution (after the Royal Family and anyone who has appeared in Hello magazine or Big Brother).
On 7 Oct 2008 at 10:00pm Bored wrote:
haha yes good old Mrs T. Lets blame the conservatives for this resession. I think it was Brown who thought it best to sell off the countries gold reserves at the lowest price he could get for them.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 8:03am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
It's a bit inequitable, isn't it? The minute you owe the bank money and can't pay it back, they send you loads of letters and charge you handsomely for the privilege and ultimately will repossess your house or send in the bailifs to take everything you own.
When the banks owe us money and can't pay, the government uses OUR money to bail them out. I can understand that they have no real choice, but the whole system seems bonkers to me.
Mind you, I've always been in favour of nationalising them.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 8:13am Taff wrote:
I agree, Mrs T and her crew have a fiar share of the reason. They accelerated the decline of manufacture in the UK. Nothing made = nothing british to buy = money going elswhere. Answer; lets sell fictitious things like futures and that will be on the back of other money. Whoops the foundation money struggles = domino effect. Simple.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 9:01pm An Economist wrote:
Well it's going your way so far SHS. Despite a 50 billion plus recapitalisation of banks, and a 50 basis point cut in base rate, the FTSE fell more than 5% on the day. The root cause of the problems in financial markets is an over inflated housing market. Not sure personally who is to blame though. Probably some combination of financial "advisers" for not scrutinising mortgage applications but just focusing on their commision, banks for not giving a t*ss about who they were planning to lend to 'cos they were going to parcel the debt off to someone else anyway, estate agents, 'cos they led us to believe that house prices would go up forever, you and me 'cos we believed them, or the government 'cos they failed to regulate any of this nonsense.
Anyway, I don't think we can blame the current financial crisis on Mrs T. She has been off the scene for 20 years.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 9:45pm Frak wrote:
Who to blame, lies in 2 places - The banks that lent money to people who blatantly couldn't really afford it and those people who took the money to buy things they couldn't afford. Namely houses. It is not the fault of the government or it wouldn't be a worldwide phenomena.
Also, if it was a fault of Labour, you would have the slimy tories jumping on their backs. Instead they are keeping fairly quiet and saying that they will back the govt in the hope that people see them as them as good as they put the country first.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 10:15pm An Economist wrote:
I stick by my original list of people to blame. Yes, I blame the banks and the people who borrowed from them. I still blame those who were complicit in the "house prices can only ever go up" game, and that includes so-called financial advisers and estate agents. As to it being a worldwide phenomenon, well it's not really. It's mainly us and the US. I wasn't trying to make a party-political point by saying it was a failure of government, rather it was a failure of regulation, which is a responsibility of government. I am quite sure that the Tories would have made the same mistakes. I just don't think it can be blamed on Mrs T, however much one might dislike her.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 10:24pm Frak wrote:
AE, I was generally agreeing with you, especially about estate agents and the point about government was aimed at the original poster. I do think it is not just us and the US though, look at Iceland and Germany.
On 8 Oct 2008 at 10:37pm An Economist wrote:
Fair point Frak. But Iceland is a basket case. They have the population of Coventry and a current account deficit equal to 30% of their GDP. The housing market in Germany is fine, it's just that their banks bought loads of sh*t from the US! In terms of banks doing silly things, I agree, it is more or less a global phenomenon. But when you look at who has the most ridiculously over-priced houses it is largley us first, then the US, and Spain probably comes into the mix somewhere ...
On 9 Oct 2008 at 8:27am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Germany is a different case because the proportion of owner-occupiers there is much lower than here (as is the case in most of Europe) and they have a strong rented sector, with fair rents and secure tenancies. I believe Britain has the highest proportion of home ownership in the world. The demand here is fuelled by the lack of secure alternatives - there's naff all social housing available and it's well nigh impossible to get a secure tenancy in the private sector. The extremely high demand is the main factor in house price inflation.
Now, perhaps someone could remind me which PM it was that flogged off all the council houses..........
On 9 Oct 2008 at 8:14pm SHS wrote:
Agree with comments about housing, and the sell-off of council houses being wrong. But MC, yes it is simple - "Would you or I have spent so much, borrowed so much, bit and mauled the hand that feeds us and totally failed to prioritise?". If govt revenue is derived from taxes on individuals, business, goods, and services (and note the last three depend on the first), then the govt should do everything possible to ensure these things thrive, and grow. If you or I want several expensive things but only have one Lewes Pound and 24 hours, common sense dictates that we prioritise and make absolutely sure we don't lose the little money we have nor waste time. The paint and slogans on Lewes District Council vans change every year. Names of govt departments change like the wind. Road signs change and multiply as much as often as the legislation that fails to run the country. Do we really need this? ID cards ..... etc. Rant over.
On 9 Oct 2008 at 10:22pm Frak wrote:
And your point was?